|
|
Post by Figgles on Jun 2, 2023 4:25:10 GMT
Perfect metaphor for those sacred ideas/beliefs/experiences that are so difficult to turn away from. The very idea/belief that the seeker believes is sustaining him, very likely is the very belief that he needs to see through. It's like an alcoholic who believes that without alcohol he cannot function, and yet it is the affects of alcohol that even makes her question the ability to function. (There ya go Sharon....Ima runnin' with the theme...  ) |
|
Andrew
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 8,345
|
Post by Andrew on Jun 2, 2023 14:54:15 GMT
Hey, I'm aware we didn't finish what we were talking about over there, I was getting along fine with it, but seemed like the energy was ramping up in general forum relations so I stepped back, but I might pick it up here later  |
|
|
|
Post by Figgles on Jun 2, 2023 16:32:10 GMT
Hey, I'm aware we didn't finish what we were talking about over there, I was getting along fine with it, but seemed like the energy was ramping up in general forum relations so I stepped back, but I might pick it up here later All good! Yes, I was having a few nice convos with you and a few others there. It's clear though my very presence riles up some members to a degree that it's a huge distraction from actual spiritual/Truth-talk, so I'll likely keep things here, but we'll see... |
|
|
|
Post by Figgles on Jun 2, 2023 16:36:21 GMT
If you take a deeper look, it's those who shut down conversation, who refuse to even give an answer when their view is pointedly challenged who most highly value 'winning' an argument.
Dharma challenge is not about "winning a debate," even though to one who is cornered and in danger of having his most sacred of beliefs/security blanket snatched away, it might indeed look like that.
Challenge of views is (or should be!) part and parcel of a sincere conversation about Truth/what can be known for Absolute certain.
The fact that so many are averse to direct challenge, says much.
|
|
|
|
Post by Figgles on Jun 2, 2023 16:40:57 GMT
It's nice eh, when your fellow forum members offer up a pat excuse for your shirking away from direct challenge of your supposed Truths...?
And that extreme, all or nothing statement you are making there is outright false. There's all sorts of instances where I not only agree with what another is putting forth, but that I express my resonance and appreciation for what they've said/pointed to.
Fwiw, "deluded" in these conversations does not necessarily means "stupid." In fact, it's very often the case that high intellect/reasoning is involved in some of the deepest delusions/illusions.
The reason you rarely interact ZD is because you're in danger of having your security blanket/sacred views snatched away and you fear that more than you even know.
|
|
|
|
Post by Figgles on Jun 13, 2023 21:52:11 GMT
There is a deep fear of 'loss' of something important behind mind's tenacity in holding to our most sacred of sacred beliefs.
The person fears that if he no longer can rely upon those ideas/beliefs that bring him comfort as being Absolutely True, that he will lose every-thing meaningful and of value to him.
In actuality, personal meaning and values remain...there is no need to give them up, destroy them or deny them....they continue on as the story and me character continue on, even after seeing them for what they are; empty appearance only. The important and necessary thing IS to see them as such. In that, they are rendered impotent in terms of the obscuring of freedom.
In seeing through your most sacred of beliefs you don't actually lose anything "essential" at all. But it's only in getting to that other side, "post" that shift in locus of seeing that is SR, that that actually becomes evident. Until then, the SVP can only imagine what's it's like to lose it's most sacred/comforting of beliefs/ideas/knowings, and that imagining of 'loss' is very bleak to the person.
The sage clearly sees that the freedom he now knows intimately, has it's roots in that loss....that in actuality, that loss is ultimately a gain/a realizing of what was always, abidingly there.
|
|
|
|
Post by Figgles on Jun 14, 2023 15:51:31 GMT
I suspect that your absence of implicit trust is more than just an 'ingrained instruction'.... it's realization based. really well put & bingo to both bolded assertions. A mere conceptual belief that 'the world is not real,' is something very, very different than a realization backed pointer that 'the world is dream-content.' Yup. But where there is SR/wakefulness, there is an important, realization based absence that does impact 'the way' the world is experienced...indeed, stuff like holding credit cards numbers close may not change, but there ARE things that DO change...things that are not readily observed/experientially noticed simply by indirect observation of another's behavior/actions. |
|
|
|
Post by Figgles on Jun 14, 2023 15:59:39 GMT
Don't mistake open/direct challenge of your views with an empty/dark heart.  One day you just might recognize that the words/challenges that pissed you off the most were the ones that had most loving of intents behind them. Pandering to person's with thin skins might 'seem' loving and kind, but if we're talking Truth, an uncompromising approach truly IS the way. The interest to point apparent fellow-travellers toward freedom is not one of a dark/empty heart, even though the personal experience of that pointing, from a position of being bound within the dream, might suggest otherwise. |
|
|
|
Post by Figgles on Jun 15, 2023 4:17:14 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by Figgles on Jul 3, 2023 14:36:51 GMT
And there, you reveal YOUR dogma/sacred beliefs which you mistake to be Truth/Gospel.
The very idea of a "soujourn" rife with opportunity that CAN be wasted...that is entirely a mind-fabricated idea.
|
|
)
