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Post by Figgles on Jan 25, 2023 20:36:30 GMT
It really is as simple as; Awareness continues to abide/exist even absent arising appearance, but arising appearance depends wholly upon Awareness for it's temporal appearance.
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Post by Figgles on Jan 28, 2023 21:36:12 GMT
What you 'fundamentally are' is NOT a thing. And yet, you do not have to deny the appearing of 'things' in order to say it's all fundamentally One.
You are attempting to make the leap to 3rd mountain position, full circle where a mountain is once again a mountain, without 1st realizing the mountain is arising absent it's own, separate, inherent existence and depends upon awareness for it's temporal appearance.
yes, the mountain is essentially an expression of awareness...thus, ultimately, none-other than awareness, but it's also still temporal....ephemeral....absent it's own essential abiding nature...it's own inherent existence.
That must be seen (that's what 2nd mountain position is all about) before resolving it all as essentially "One."
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Post by Figgles on Jan 28, 2023 21:44:04 GMT
Because, with that still comes an imagined separate entity which is false.
Once the separate entity is seen through...once separation is seen through completely, there is no need/no way TO 'distance' yourself from the appearing body/mind.....there is no longer separation in play...no erroneous idea in play.....just awareness and it's content...all One.
That's what an SVP does....imagines two things and then conceptually 'unified' them in mind....holds them as 'connected.'
That is simply a prescription for a seeker who is sincerely interested to inquire into 'what am I.' The sage who is no longer identified with the body has no need to 'ignore the body.' The body no longer reigns primary....awareness is now primary, with the body as an expression within/to that.
The SVP is generally not a big fan of the idea of it's seeing through...the idea of it's own absence. That sense of aversion you have towards Nonduality...? That right there is the SVP in play.
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Post by Figgles on Jan 28, 2023 21:45:59 GMT
Damn...nice explanation.
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Post by Figgles on Jan 29, 2023 19:42:33 GMT
See...so not totally convinced then that he is 'stampeded'..?
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Post by Figgles on Jan 29, 2023 23:22:03 GMT
The very reason we must use metaphor/analogy to try to talk about wakefulness is because the 'place' of seeing when it comes to the Truth is not 'within' experience....we cannot simply describe wakefulness/SR using conceptual descriptions, as we would when sharing a particular experience.
Everyone finds it simpler describing things within experience....it's not as easy to describe what it's like to be awake....or to talk about/write about Truth.
From everything you say, it very much appears as though you have not. What's happened is you've had a mystical experience....a Kensho/CC type of event that you misconstrued to be an actual shift in seeing to 'beyond/prior to' minding. It happens quite a bit, so you're not alone in mistaking a woo-woo experience for 'beyond mind realization.'
The end of identification with the body/mind does not create any kind of distance in the sense that the body/mind experience then seems to be 'out there...or outside of what I am,' but there is now an absence of the sense of being limited to/by an appearing body/mind, or of the body/mind as being the domain of thought, feelings, seeing, experience, any kind of doership, and now the 'domain' of all that is gone and all of that is just happening to no one/no-thing.
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Post by Figgles on Jan 31, 2023 2:14:02 GMT
Yes.
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Post by Figgles on Feb 4, 2023 21:53:37 GMT
Being awake is something entirely different than intentionally/mentally distancing yourself from the mind/body.
Being awake means seeing that the conceptual me that is based upon thoughts/ideas, is temporal...an appearance only that has no inherent substance of it's own...and that which is substantive, is abiding, and is essentially what you are...is essentially the ground to all temporal appearance, including the appearing body/mind.
Seeing that the appearing body/mind is a temporal appearance within/to the ground of awareness that remains unchanging, does equal a shift in vantage point that removes identification with the body/mind, but there is no 'distance' or holding oneself apart from the appearing body/mind in that....to see the body/mind/person as an expression of awareness is to actually bridge a misconceived conceptual gap between awareness and perceivables.
Previously, perceivables were deemed to be inherently existent sources/grounds to arising awareness, whereas in SR, perceivables are now seen as dependently arising within/to abiding awareness. No separation.
So you've got it backwards...in SR, there is no active/mental distancing yourself from anything that appears, just a natural shift in locus of seeing that moves seeing from the eyes of the appearing body/mind, to beyond/prior to. If anything, there is now an absence of distance between awareness and content as separation is seen through and it's seen that there is nothing at all that can appear, that lies outside of the ground of awareness/being...it's all fundamentally, essentially, One.
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Post by Figgles on Feb 5, 2023 17:47:17 GMT
A great point of inquiry. SR clearly reveals that the very idea of "human consciousness" is problematic....ultimately, a delusion in the way most think about it...regard it. Nothing that appears is actually the domain of consciousness....everything that appears, including humans are appearances arising within/to consciousness. Thus, 'human consciousness' is at best, an 'in the dream' idea....at worst, a delusion/illusion that equals imagined separation. Any experience of communicating with someone after the body has died, cannot be relied upon to tell you the Absolute Truth of the matter....as all experiential content is empty and devoid of Truth....it's all a facet of the story/dream....no inherent, essential existence in it's own right. The question of a continued 'me character' experience after bodily death has no existential answer....it's a question relegated to the relative realm/context. I've always said that my conversations with my dead loved ones have been as 'real/valid' as the convos I recall having with them when they were physically alive and appearing before me in flesh & bone, but that does not mean I possess Absolute knowledge about life after death...that is the Truth. It's true that I experience such..that I very much enjoy such and that it's become accepted as a relatively common-place experience that there is the appearance of life of my loved ones continuing on....but that's as far as I can go as to say more, to speak of that as representative of some greater Truth, is to try to take mind where it plain and simply does not belong. It really seems as though ST has completely turned over into a new age discussion forum....very little in the way of talking about the view from beyond/prior to experience. A group of dream characters, all marvelling over the various shades of blue/pink of the dream-scape sky.....comparing opinions on whether it's more blue or more pink and there's a lone character that enters into the pic to try to tell them they're all dream characters...the sky, just like the character they think they are, is an appearance also within the dream....their opinions about and the colors they see, all dream facets, but their focus is so intent upon the issue of the sky and it's colors that the shift necessary to see what the dude is talking about, is not even on the radar...they think he's a nut who is talking shit. It really is fine to marvel over the sky and it's beautiful colors....to delve into new age ideas to mull them over and compare...but Nonduality is not about that...it's about seeing from beyond/prior to all that...and in that seeing from beyond, once that vantage point is primary, all that dream-stuff, the marvelling, comparing, whatever, can still happen, but it's now re-framed by the transcendent point of view that is now primary.
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Post by Figgles on Feb 13, 2023 2:22:06 GMT
Thanks for including me there Gopal....agree that both E and Robertk getting banned/run-off the ST forum was a loss..Sree also was..things were just starting to simmer there, was getting interesting. Maybe...come back here and we can try to make this one work again...? (Hey...I might even let you change the colors! ..and will share Reef's instagram link if you're really nice... )
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