Transcendence | Spiritualgab

Figgles
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Transcendence Dec 23, 2023 0:07:00 GMT

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Post by Figgles on Dec 23, 2023 0:07:00 GMT

SDP:
sdp would NEVER ~be happy~ with a ND SR-TR. The Origin-of-sdp (not-the-mask) is a seed, and the-way-back to Source is the germination and growth of the seed.

That "someone" that you think will be unhappy with an ND SR-TR, is what gets seen through in SR! When the separate, volitional person gets seen through, so does all that baggage you carry around re: life purpose, ultimate goals, reasons for being, etc. Your measuring stick by which you judge "bad/good," in SR, no longer extends into the depth of judgment that is currently does for you. There are still surface judgments.....preferences....dislikes, but there is now a fundamental acceptance/allowance....the fundamental perfection of all of it, has been revealed and that trumps all surface judgments.

Figgles
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Transcendence Dec 23, 2023 0:10:16 GMT

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Post by Figgles on Dec 23, 2023 0:10:16 GMT

SDP:
ND SR-TR seems to promote, just give up dude, you'll never understand (that's what SR-TR IS).

SR illuminates the fact that the seeking for existential answers had a huge misconception/delusion central to it. All existential questions of "how/why/where/who" are at their core, misconceived. Your belief that there are Absolute answers to relative queries, is delusion/illusion based.

Figgles
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Transcendence Dec 29, 2023 10:11:48 GMT

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Post by Figgles on Dec 29, 2023 10:11:48 GMT

SomeNothing:
It's not a contest of right/wrong or better/best, but one of a journey into the arms of a freedom FROM the mind SO you can use it clearly in its functional capacity.... for things in this world. It's not made for non-conceptual 'realizations', though it can be very useful for organizing the conceptualizations. That is, the mind needs to be informed... but it doesn't 'know' by what.

Step UP. You're fluent in ALL of the ideas of an ancient schema. You've presented the schema clearly and populated it with amazing amounts of knowledgeable ideas and insights that you've devoted yourself to. You probably don't even realize how deep you're into it (mind is the last to get the message). The levies are saturated, the dam is already overflowing.

Sincerely, with your deepest sense of Self, ask/pray....listen/notice/mediate. All you need is waiting.

As nice an idea as it may be, the so called "journey" into the arms of freedom from mind is NOT paved by saturating the levies of mind to the point of overflowing. If only it were that mechanized a process....

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Transcendence Dec 29, 2023 21:57:41 GMT

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Post by Figgles on Dec 29, 2023 21:57:41 GMT

Tenka:
So please tell me what you really are that was realised. If you can't because anything conveyed via the mind will be conceptual beliefs then you can't say what we are not with such conviction.

The conviction/surety re: the apprehension of Truth is not in any way compromised by the inability to capture that realization with words/concepts. In fact....words are only ever a stand-in for the actuality....even relatively speaking!

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Transcendence Dec 29, 2023 22:01:01 GMT

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Post by Figgles on Dec 29, 2023 22:01:01 GMT

Tenka:
You say that I am the silent, alert witness, can you tell me how that conclusion came about, again without any beliefs or conceptual conditionings reflecting in your answer.

Just look, absent mind's commentary about what you are seeing....that's the silent, alert witness....or more accurately stated...that's 'witnessing/seeing' from a place of silent alertness, that which arises/appears. A "conclusion" involves minding about what appears...not merely to observing of it.

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Transcendence Dec 30, 2023 17:48:15 GMT

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Post by Figgles on Dec 30, 2023 17:48:15 GMT

SomeNothing:
For example, sometimes, when in the flow of discussions here, it almost seems like you are defending the mind-as-self position...

SDP: Never.

Here's the thing SDP, your "mind-as-self position" does not include "soul/seed-as-self"....you are failing to see that while from where you sit, that "soul/seed".... "seems to be" transcendent of mind, BUT, from a true position of seeing from beyond/prior to ALL appearance, it's NOT...it's still mind content/minding!

This is the problem with a conversation between someone who is still mired in the dream vs. the SR/truly awakened...you still have not yet seen the scope of 'mind/minding' and thus, you erroneously conflate 'beyond consensus trance' ideas with true, Nondual transcendence.

Last Edit: Dec 30, 2023 18:14:24 GMT by Figgles

Figgles
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Transcendence Dec 30, 2023 18:42:49 GMT

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Post by Figgles on Dec 30, 2023 18:42:49 GMT

Satchi:
You have an idea that there is a thing called a mind that doesn't exist apart from the mentations you experience which we refer to collectively as mind. It's like the ocean. It doesn't exist as a thing except for the water, the marine life and appearances within it such as surf and waves. But we refer to what we collectively see as the ocean. But there is no ocean without the water, marine life, waves and surf. That is what is actually happening.

A thought spontaneously appears and then it disappears to be replaced by another one. That is what is happening! And we call it mind, but there is no object or entity that is a mind apart from the mentations which come and go.

If you cannot accept this simple fact then what hope is there for you to discover your true nature which depends on the complete abandonment of all concepts and ideas.

Yup. You are nailing it with this current discourse on "mind." SDP is a stellar example of what it means to be so caught up in the story, that there's an inability to see past it and simply observe/acknowledge what 'presently arises' vs. all that is imagined/surmised.

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Transcendence Dec 30, 2023 19:02:57 GMT

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Post by Figgles on Dec 30, 2023 19:02:57 GMT

SDP:
yesterday at 10:10am stardustpilgrim said:
An analogy. Moses only got to look at the Promised Land, he was not allowed to enter the Promised Land. He had a Realization of the Promised Land. I don't want a realization, sdp (not the small s self, which = Moses) wants to actually enter the land. All I hear from you guys is you've had a Realization. Realization is like an IOU, or a mortgage.

It's an impossibility for the small s self to enter the Promised Land, that's the Whole point.

You continually speak from the position of (s)elf, mistaking a relative transcendence of status quo viewpoint/consensus trance with the realization of (S)elf. You've highjacked the pointers of Nonduality, incorporating them into your ontology of "being a more conscious, expanded, evolved human."

(S)elf (vs. (s)elf) is a reference to the seeing through/absence of fundamental separation that dissolves identification with the 'apparent me character.'

You are still very much identified with the 'SDP/me character,' even though you have adopted a relative viewpoint about that character that 'within the story,' is more expansive/apparently more evolved than the basic, status quo viewpoint of Joe-blow who never looks under the hood.

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Transcendence Jan 2, 2024 7:44:22 GMT

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Post by Figgles on Jan 2, 2024 7:44:22 GMT

Tenka:
An individual that experiences a human form is a package deal.

There is no "individual" THAT experiences a human form....."being an individual....being a human form," are both appearance...perceivables....experiential content. An individual...a human form...are facets OF "experience"....not domains/foundations/sources OF experience.

What you are forms a personality that is part of the expression of that individuality.

The spirit, the soul embodies the form or object. There is no divide.

Perhaps it is more so everyone else isn't on the same page as Ten

A "What" you are, that then "forms" a personality = imagined separation. There is no "what" that "does/creates" something else.

A "spirit" that supposedly "embodies" form/object = the imagined divide that = imagined separation.

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Transcendence Jan 3, 2024 19:35:02 GMT

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Post by Figgles on Jan 3, 2024 19:35:02 GMT

Zaz:
I might agree, but at some point there's noone or no-thing that needs informing since "informing" means tranferring information. And ultimately there was never informing because there never was an informer versus an informed. That's the crux of the delusion.

Careful...Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater....indeed, there is in Truth, no existent entity/some-one/some-thing that "gets informed," but experientially, relatively speaking, there is still experience..a me character that apparently thinks and holds relative knowledge/views.

I talk to the dead every night when they come visit and try to "inform" them that we're merely "imagined." That our separateness, hence the need to talk to each other is a delusion. They take it about as well as Tenka does. They think I'm daft. Imagine that.

There's no need to deny experience...seeing it as empty and devoid of inherent existence...seeing it as appearance is more than enough. The world need disappear to remain free of it's clutches.