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Post by Figgles on Sept 1, 2023 17:55:31 GMT
You're hitting on an important point/pointer here Zaz.
SR/being awake/Enlightened/Freedom/Liberation/Transcendence, (pick your term) are all references to where seeing is primarily happening from....it's a reference to a shift in primary 'locus' of seeing, from within the bounded/limited apparent viewpoint of the person, to beyond/prior to the person and ALL other perceivables that arise within/to that ground of awareness/seeing that is now primary to ALL content.
That said, it's NOT the apparent individual that "gets enlightened," as the person/me character is now clearly realized to be appearing as a perceivable within/to the ground of awareness (and not itself the ground/source to arising awareness, as it was previously, erroneously thought to be).
That said, the personal perspective...mind....experience....IS impacted by that shift in primary locus of seeing, as the seeing from 'beyond' illuminates previous delusions/illusions and those then are no longer actively in play within the personal perspective.
This is what so many (Reefs particularly!) has missed. The so called "personal perspective" IS impacted by the shift in primary locus of seeing TO the impersonal.
The personal perspective is not done away with...not at all....it's still there...still actively in play, except in "enlightenment" it's now "couched within/encompassed/included" within the ground of seeing/awareness, within which it appears.
Where that shift has happened, you do not still have a personal perspective that includes the false idea of separation/being an SVP....ideas such as an existent "Law" that governs what can unfold in experience...etc, etc...
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Post by Figgles on Sept 1, 2023 18:03:50 GMT
Nice.
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Post by Figgles on Sept 1, 2023 18:07:54 GMT
Yup.
That there is a bit of relative clarity....an insight re: "what in the blazes is going on," that shockingly, many avid seekers still have not recognized.
It's plays a part in the "I do know other people are perceivers" fallacy/delusion.
If you knew for Absolute certain that they ARE in fact experiencing/perceiving, you'd also by virtue of that, know the content of the experience/perception, here and NOW...imminently, directly.
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Post by Figgles on Sept 1, 2023 18:17:22 GMT
Nonduality if grokked propertly, actually simplifies it all...takes it all down to what is/can be known directly, imminently...that which is beyond question...self evidently so.
That relative insight that 'there is only NOW,' requires nothing more (ha!) than a true, sincere interest in looking at what IS known, here...now...beyond question.
It's wild though how mind will jump in to try to declare 'more' under that category.
Certain, unquestionable knowing is confined to the immediate, imminent present....it includes that which abides as well as that which is arising in perception.....it's only via realization/shift in locus of seeing though, that the entire realm of perceivables can be clearly seen to be devoid of their own inherent existence. Unless seeing is happening from the abiding ground position, certain perceivables will get mistaken for themselves being abiding.
That's where get supposed Absolute knowledge of "conscious rocks that are having their own unique experience."
It's entirely possible to "experience rocks" as "being conscious." But it's important not to mistake that mystical experience for an Absolute knowing.
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Post by Figgles on Sept 25, 2023 3:33:47 GMT
What does that mean, "the truth finds expression...the truth demands expression...?
Truth is not an Absolute knowing about some-thing, gained. No, realized Truth does not "demand" anything at all...It simply IS....regardless of what is appearing. If the locus of seeing is from beyond/prior.....all expressions will be couched within that. That does not necessarily mean different appearances, but they will framed be differently by a mind that is informed of the absence of separation.
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Post by Figgles on Sept 25, 2023 3:48:39 GMT
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Post by Figgles on Sept 27, 2023 15:47:24 GMT
Precisely!
But it's even more that; These ideas have a how/why question behind them and that how/why question IS an attempt to garner "existential information/knowledge/Truth"....the very interest/asking of such questions, hinges upon a misconception.
You seem clear when it specifically comes to those ideas Gopal is now putting forth, but You seem to have missed the fact that LOA/deliberate creation.....the idea/belief that getting into alignment "creates/causes" a future experience that conforms with present desire is also not of any existential import, thus, as you say, "not for people who are seriously interested in the existential truth.
Why do never bring that up when Reefs writes his text walls explaining how "like attracts like," as an "inviolable, existent law" that dictates future experiential content? LOA is an answer to an erroneous existential question.
You're fine with telling Gopal that his arrival at an answer to his erroneous existential questions is ultimately, as the question is, misconceived, but not Reefs. How come? It's a pretty important point on a suppoesd Nonduality forum, no?
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Post by Figgles on Oct 11, 2023 22:27:16 GMT
That judgment that deems certain feelings intrinsically "better than" others, IS the overlay of the imagined separate, volitional person. Absent that, feelings are accepted/allowed...and in that, there's no stickiness....once feelings just arise and pass on through, there's no longer any reason to try to control feelings...or to deem some worthy of 'perpetuating' and some others, not.
That which makes a particular feeling state "intolerable" IS the overlay of the judgmental SVP...the sense of separation that makes for a "need" for content to conform to personal likes/preferences.
Yes! Beautifully put.
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Post by Figgles on Oct 17, 2023 18:31:31 GMT
A couple of very clear, direct pointers to absence there, guys, I think perhaps offered in contrast to all the LOA/I can choose to be a delberate creator and thereby create future experience' material...? Regardless, you're both spot on.
And yes, the way the next breath simply happens, absent any need at all to control or orchestrate, provides the perfect analogy to all other happenings/unfoldings. While it may 'seem' as though you, as a person, is 'the doer/controller' of what happens next, that is but a very strong, persistent, well-disguised illusion.
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Post by Figgles on Oct 18, 2023 19:22:03 GMT
I have nothing at all against a practice of 'non-grasping' for seekers. As an 'in the dream' form of self-help..a relative ability to be less triggered, less carried away by mind/thought/feeling, is an important facet of what it means to be 'a mature adult human.' But it's important not to conflate the absence of an imagined separate person, who 'gets better at' non-grasping, with an actual absence of 'an SVP.' Where there is an SVP, there will by virtue of that, be some degree of grasping/seeking. It's just part & parcel of the presence of a sense of being a separate someone. It's true, there are self-identified persons who have cultivated an ability to avoid getting sucked in/caught up in life's various drama's and such, but so long as the locus of seeing is still 'with' an imagined, limited, separate entity/body/mind/person, by virtue of that, who is anchored well and firmly within the dream/within appearance, the appearing world's still essentially 'gotcha by the balls.'  It's only when the locus of seeing shifts from the imagined seeing/consciously aware eyes of the person, TO beyond/prior to ALL appearance, that there is truly "liberation" from the appearing world.That shift is out of the hands/practice of the person. There are no bridges. An imagined SVP cannot 'actually' practice his way out of the equation. It's only then that 'grasping' falls away...it's only the absence of imagined separation...absence of an imagined SVP that grasping can abidingly, fall away...become absent. Until the SVP disappears, there will continue to be a 'someone' in the mix, who 'tries to avoid.' grasping. And that is something entirely different than being liberated/free from grasping (seeking). |
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