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Post by Figgles on Dec 30, 2022 18:50:57 GMT
Yup. E used to draw a similarly hard, stark, uncompromising line and while many a seeker butted hard up against it, and there were clashes involved, ultimately, that unwavering, non-conceding position is now so appreciated. As per our previous discussion, Jac O'Keefe recently posted a quote something akin to "don't take things so personally." Which while fine if the approach is 'in the dream/self help,' it really is rather odd for one supposedly speaking from the impersonal vantage point. Some seemingly take the 'mind informing/results' of SR, and then formulate those absences that impact experience, into a sort of prescription for those not yet awake. It's a nonsense, because absent the realization/seeing through (awakening!) that equals the absence, what they are actually suggesting is that the seeker/SVP further reify themselves as existent some-ones/some-things, that CAN volitionally choose, to simply choose NOT take things personally. If you're gonna teach self-help, stick to that lane, as you are dealing with seeker who are not yet awake, and if you're gonna talk Nonduality/Truth, stick to that lane and don't waver.... The two lanes really do not cross but many 'teachers' try to amalgamate them both into one and the result is just....well....stupid...      but Jac is speaking to seekers who do take things personally. That opens up a lot of possible questions. Such as if Jac is awake and no longer takes things personally then how does she know what it is to take things personally in relating to others? I've opened a can of worms 😀 Agreed, she IS talking to seekers who do take things personally. Being awake does not mean you forget how it was to be fast asleep, so I don't see any issue in talking to seekers precisely where they sit...acknowledging the delusions that go along with that erroneous position.... but I do agree it's odd and perhaps indeed 'a can worth opening' to discuss that whole thing of 'prescribing' actions/behaviors like "don't take things personally," to someone who really can't help BUT do that, simply because he's fast asleep, fully convinced he IS a separate person. To the separate person/seeker, the only reference he has for 'not taking things personally,' is a sort of contrived, conceptual stance whereby he tries to emotionally disconnect himself from the impact of whatever it was he was reacting to. Many try to buffer themselves from personal insult and the like via working with thoughts....trying to arrive at a thought that resonates to some degree, that is less personally 'hurtful' than the one that hurts. No doubt it does get tricky speaking from a position of wakefulness to those who are not awake as there's always going to be a disconnect between vantage points. The seeker hears, "I, as a person need to stop taking things so personally and I will feel better, and feeling better is of the utmost importance,"...whereas to the awakened, it's just a case of I no longer take things so personally because I've realized that i am not in fact a separate person as I once believed I was....and from this vantage point, the goal is no longer focused on 'feeling good,' as that itself is part and parcel of the SVP's domain. So in short, I know you have expressed doubts about Jac O'keefe's wakefulness or methods of teaching, etc, and I may be more with ya on that than either of us previously recognized. |
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Esponja
Super Duper Senior Member
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Post by Esponja on Dec 31, 2022 0:09:41 GMT
Yup. E used to draw a similarly hard, stark, uncompromising line and while many a seeker butted hard up against it, and there were clashes involved, ultimately, that unwavering, non-conceding position is now so appreciated. As per our previous discussion, Jac O'Keefe recently posted a quote something akin to "don't take things so personally." Which while fine if the approach is 'in the dream/self help,' it really is rather odd for one supposedly speaking from the impersonal vantage point. Some seemingly take the 'mind informing/results' of SR, and then formulate those absences that impact experience, into a sort of prescription for those not yet awake. It's a nonsense, because absent the realization/seeing through (awakening!) that equals the absence, what they are actually suggesting is that the seeker/SVP further reify themselves as existent some-ones/some-things, that CAN volitionally choose, to simply choose NOT take things personally. If you're gonna teach self-help, stick to that lane, as you are dealing with seeker who are not yet awake, and if you're gonna talk Nonduality/Truth, stick to that lane and don't waver.... The two lanes really do not cross but many 'teachers' try to amalgamate them both into one and the result is just....well....stupid... but Jac is speaking to seekers who do take things personally. That opens up a lot of possible questions. Such as if Jac is awake and no longer takes things personally then how does she know what it is to take things personally in relating to others? I've opened a can of worms 😀 Too much confusion out there. I love Jac, had a 1:1 with her but I’ll admit to coming away a bit, dunno’ dare I say disappointed. For me, Sailor Bob has not deviated from his message. Doesn’t matter if you’re an apparent seeker or have had clairity. Always points to ‘who?’ |
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Post by Figgles on Jan 2, 2023 5:09:39 GMT
"If I drank a whole bottle of wine I would probably collapse, but until I collapsed the awareness would be totally there." Eckhart Tolle |
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Esponja
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 1,742
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Post by Esponja on Jan 2, 2023 5:28:29 GMT
"If I drank a whole bottle of wine I would probably collapse, but until I collapsed the awareness would be totally there." Eckhart Tolle Serendipity my friend sent me this! |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2023 7:50:42 GMT
Being awake does not mean you forget how it was to be fast asleep, Well yeah because to be awake means you still have an ego but you don't identify with that ego as being what you essentially are. But that ego still performs its function as before. Now you might say there is no SVP but I bet you still say things like I am going shopping. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2023 7:55:07 GMT
Too much confusion out there. I love Jac, had a 1:1 with her but I’ll admit to coming away a bit, dunno’ dare I say disappointed. For me, Sailor Bob has not deviated from his message. Doesn’t matter if you’re an apparent seeker or have had clairity. Always points to ‘who?’ Jac seems to engage the mind too much. She comes across as kind of frenetic and all over the place to me. Sailor Bob is always taking you away from the mind, pointing back to the source. |
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Post by Figgles on Jan 2, 2023 19:03:24 GMT
Being awake does not mean you forget how it was to be fast asleep, Well yeah because to be awake means you still have an ego but you don't identify with that ego as being what you essentially are. But that ego still performs its function as before. Now you might say there is no SVP but I bet you still say things like I am going shopping.Sure, of course. And I have no issue with saying the ego remains and still performs it's function as before. It's just that now it's seen clearly for what it is, (and what it is not!) and that's what equals the non-identification with it. |
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Post by Figgles on Feb 20, 2023 3:07:15 GMT
Continual context flipping again throughout.....I really do wonder if she's at all conscious that she is saying something very different, or at least presenting the info. very differently than she did in the past. She used to present as extremely clear...but now there's complexity...hard to follow as she jumps from an Absolute context to the relative, at times declaring the relative to be akin to 'dream content,' and at others times, reifying facets of the dream content as causal to future appearing dream content....It's as though for a minute second, she sees and expresses Truth and then it slips away in the next moment and she expresses delusion. Very odd, particularly considering how clearly she used to express fundamental Truth.
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Post by Figgles on Feb 20, 2023 3:44:32 GMT
An excellent video here....Francis Lucille eloquently makes the point that awareness is not an object... cannot be perceived...it is not a perceivable...not phenomenally known. To awaken, We must dissolve identification with all things phenomenal...that includes aliveness...a field of energy that imbues individual objects with it's substance...anything at all that can be imagined...conceptualized...anything that is a perceivable some-thing.....has gotta go.
It's not good enough to simply collapse all discrete, apparent objects, things into a perceived, phenomenally knowable, "singular something." That singular something (energetic field...aliveness....energy substrate) is STILL a perceivable some-thing. Awareness still lies beyond/prior to that.
(Unfortunately, looks like you have to go to youtube to view....well-worth it if you ask me!)
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Esponja
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 1,742
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Post by Esponja on Feb 21, 2023 2:46:59 GMT
An excellent video here....Francis Lucille eloquently makes the point that awareness is not an object... cannot be perceived...it is not a perceivable...not phenomenally known. To awaken, We must dissolve identification with all things phenomenal...that includes aliveness...a field of energy that imbues individual objects with it's substance...anything at all that can be imagined...conceptualized...anything that is a perceivable some-thing.....has gotta go. It's not good enough to simply collapse all discrete, apparent objects, things into a perceived, phenomenally knowable, "singular something." That singular something (energetic field...aliveness....energy substrate) is STILL a perceivable some-thing. Awareness still lies beyond/prior to that. (Unfortunately, looks like you have to go to youtube to view....well-worth it if you ask me!) Sorry Figgles, I don’t think you’ve awoken because you keep hoping from teacher to teacher. |
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