Mind States vs. SR/Wakefulness

Oh, I have one alright, I just know it's not relevant in the sense that someone following along, trying to emulate it, is going to successfully wake-up due to that.

I've written quite a lot previously on ST and also here, about the various experiential aspects surrounding initial glimpses, (I was quite young re: the 1st...a whole slough of CC/s/Kensho experiences)... the "I got it, I lost it," (As described by Adya in his last book) that same sort of back and forthing...awake/asleep he describes...the various pit-falls/traps....mind trying to re-assert itself, trying to keep sacred ideas in the mix...(I was particularly fond of LOA/deliberate creation and worked quite hard to try to keep that one alive and (T)rue for a bit)...and then that final card folding and the crystal clarity as the entirety of the realm of perceivables was revealed as entirely empty and devoid of inherent existence.

It was through conversing with E and his unwavering integrity to Truth, his refusal to compromise to mind as we engaged, that, while I know was not/could not be "actually causal" to that illumination, most certainly was the most pertinent correlate surrounding it.

Just as you get pissed off at me when I challenge your 'in the dream' truths that you've mistaken for Absolute Truth, I was plenty annoyed with E too at times when his challenges threatened my erroneously imagined "bridges." I truly believed at the time, he was just being stubborn. And yet, I also could sense, there was some seriously deep integrity there....my interest in engaging remained strong and I WAS wise to that....aware.

Sometimes the delineations between asleep and awake are not so stark....there can be wavering back and forth as Adya describes, and as I look back at my writings re: LOA/deliberate creation, I can really see that was happening. I had a successful website at the time where I wrote articles on LOA and sold products related to LOA....I was able to find a loophole for a bit....a little like what Reef's is doing re: LOA...a sort of 'bridge' that made LOA "sort of" True....so that I could feel integral, and okay continuing to run the website, selling and profiting from my products/e-books.

I would say the day I folded the website, deleting almost 400 pages of articles and ads/products, cancelling a flourishing business and labour of love over 8 years time, all in fell swoop, was pretty much the day (or very close to it) that bridge completely collapsed.

As you are speaking here with the authority of having direct reference for being awake, care to share yours?

What you describe there, "swapping one superficial spiritual persona for another," does happen sometimes along the pathless path, and if you're convinced that's what's going on here, that fine and I know there is likely little I can do to convince you otherwise. All good.


E was never my captor...nor am I yours. I not only wanted to be there, deep in dharma debate as we (and others) bantered back and forth, I absolutely loved it. It was a time of great enjoyment....I relished and deeply appreciated the challenge and the fact of having the opportunity to engage in that kind of discussion. Still do.

My stumbling upon a forum years ago, where others, like myself, were interested in Truth at all costs and the Spiritual debate that comes with that, was a gift.

If you feel as you engage with me here that I am putting pressure on you, that I am "a pressure-monger" who is trying to control you in some way...using pressure tactics...being nasty and ruthless to you as a person...treating you in a manner that is hurtful/harmful and even dangerous, then why do you continue to come here...why continue to engage?

You see, very early on in my discussions with E and others on the Pavlina/ST forums, I ascertained that I was precisely where I wanted to be in having those challenging discussions, regardless of how challenging they might have been at various junctures. A genuine, sincere interest in Truth necessarily means an openness to having your most sacred of spiritual beliefs challenged.

For whatever it's worth, I thought that whole "ruthless Truth" forum where they purposefully tried to insult others into letting go was just dumb.... but again, no one was there who didn't want to be. Their mistake was in insisting there was no "me/self" here at all..so if their aim was Truth, they really did miss the mark....there IS a personal self, but it's appearance only.

Again, part and parcel of awakening to the consensus trance (which is still 'in the dream') is indeed, becoming aware of the difference between experience that has an overlay of thought/judgment applied, which generally means an overlay of mental chitter-chatter alongside it's arising, vs. the absence of all that.

Again though, that is not to be conflated with the shift in locus of seeing that is SR...the shift that reveals the 'one' who applies those judgments, never actually was...was only ever imagined.

It's very common to conflate waking to the consensus trance....becoming conscious of mind's machinations and what in blazes is going on, with SR/awakening/liberation.

For anyone on ST who upholds ZD's words/teachings, good to consider that distinction as from what I can see, he's been erroneously conflating the two all along on ST. There are times where he seems to edge up to an acknowledgment of the different between the two, but most often, he's conflating them....mistaking awake to the consensus trance with liberation/waking up.

One who is merely awake to the consensus trance, is still mired in the duality trance.