|
|
Post by Figgles on Jul 17, 2022 7:40:50 GMT
ALL experiential content is empty and devoid of inherent existence...as you said in so many words, in a long past post; It borrows it's temporal appearance from that which fundamentally exists.
Even that which is directly experienced, is a perceivable.
Niz: "Transient things only appear and have no substance."
|
|
Esponja
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 1,742
|
Post by Esponja on Jul 17, 2022 8:02:31 GMT
I admire Figgles unwavering pointing to the Truth here. She’s not being compromised.
This is about derobing from all cloacks of identity.
Freedom from prison does not mean entering a new better cell. Very few seem to see through the illusion of self and of course it’s all perfect. Again, what ‘you’ are doesn’t’mind’. 😉
|
|
|
|
Post by Figgles on Jul 17, 2022 8:03:26 GMT
How would you really know? It's been years since we've had a direct conversation because of the fact that you controlled what i could say on the ST forum and the ultimately, banned me.
Fwiw, you are the one who is wrong; In nonduality/Truth-talk, the reference to "appearance only/perceivables," is always a reference to the entirety of that which arises temporally/ephemerally within/to that which abides. It includes the entire gamut of experiential content.
You are absolutely free and welcome to come here to Gab to engage in direct conversation with me to discuss this/hash it all out, but instead, you choose to sling your bitter arrows towards me, indirectly, as above....outright lying and exagerrating.....mischaracterizing my past and current position.
Why do you keep talking about me and surmising about my views instead of gathering up the gumption to engage directly in conversation. What are you afraid of?...what are you resisting?
No one means "empty" literally! It's a pointer! And you are the one who has erroneously, inadvertently, taken it "literally." That's on you.
You've said yourself that people do not exist in their own right...that they are appearance only. That's the equivalent of saying that people are 'empty' of Truth...empty of their own inherent existence.
You are the one person I've encountered who seemed to go from what was at least a strong conceptual grasp on Nonduality to a complete and total U-turn, right back into the dream, right back into taking New Age ideas to be Truth, to once again, mis-take perceivables as having inherent existence in their own right....actual/absolute substance.
|
|
|
|
Post by Figgles on Jul 17, 2022 8:10:08 GMT
No one is arguing against the pointer that "all is Self."
Reefs has been asserting something much more specific than that. He insists that via Kensho/CC experience, he now knows for absolute certain that all appearing people, things, (including paper-clips, socks, rocks and piles of dog poop) are experiencing/perceiving/alive/conscious.
|
|
|
|
Post by Figgles on Jul 17, 2022 8:18:32 GMT
So, by "universe" then, and your reference to it as an appearance, you were only referencing the 'form' aspect of universe...not the totality of experiential content?....nothing other than form was included in that term "universe" ?
|
|
|
|
Post by Figgles on Jul 17, 2022 8:22:56 GMT
So how it then that you know for absolute certain, appearing persons to each be a discrete, individuated "experiencer/perceiver"? That was your claim from the onset of this conversation.
If there's a seeing through/collapse of multiple/individual/other people, then doesn't the knowledge related to those appearing others also collapse/dissolve?
|
|
|
|
Post by Figgles on Jul 17, 2022 8:31:30 GMT
See? You used to know that the experience surrounding SR is not 'the realization,'....you used to know that awareness precedes all objects (and just to be clear, 'objects' includes arising/appearing thoughts, ideas, senses, feelings).
Thus E's quote would be just as eloquent and valid if he had said: Ideas/thoughts arise in awareness. If thoughts were the source of awareness there could be no awareness of thoughts. Awareness must precede it's object.
|
|
|
|
Post by Figgles on Jul 17, 2022 8:39:00 GMT
So why were you all supportive and back-slappy-happy with ZD in agreement when he expressed the awe and amazement he felt in his CC/Kensho seeing that "it's all alive!"
Your account of CC/Kensho that left you absolutely certain that things/objects are experiencing seemed to include "specialness" as one of it's main components.
So...no new knowledge about appearing people and things being alive, conscious, perceiving, experiencing? That does not align with what you are now asserting.
|
|
|
|
Post by Figgles on Jul 17, 2022 8:41:11 GMT
Isn't this a direct contradiction to what you are now currently claiming?
|
|
|
|
Post by Figgles on Jul 17, 2022 8:42:52 GMT
Again, you've morphed your ontology quite considerably since 2015, it seems.
|
|
