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Post by Figgles on Jul 15, 2022 19:07:49 GMT
Yes. And what you are arguing for is cars/cats/people 'actually' perceiving/experiencing. What you've failed to see is that part and parcel of the 'mental category' context, is the 'perception/experience' itself on the part of those cats/people/cars.
The realization of true nature of all appearance/perceivables does not equal; knowing all appearing 'things' to 'actually be' perceiving/experiencing. The context mix/sloppiness is on your end Reefs...not on ours.
The seeing of the totality of all perceivables, (ideas, thoughts, senses, feelings, objects, etc.) as empty of inherent existence, dependent upon, expressions OF the abiding ground of awareness does indeed = realizing the inherent nature of the entire appearing world, but rather than instilling an absolute knowing that appearing objects are therefore, individually perceiving/experiencing, it's seen that 'perception/experience' never was the domain of an appearing object/thing/entity.
You have conflated the perceiving/experiencing with True Nature.
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Post by Figgles on Jul 15, 2022 19:14:53 GMT
Yes.
What Reefs has done is mistaken his own 'true nature,' for the perceiving/experiencing that 'seems to be' arising within/from his body/person.
He then takes that deluded idea, mistaking it for realization and overlays it upon all appearing people and things....inferring his mistaken knowing of himself as "a perceiving/experiencing entity" upon all other appearing things/people.
This really is a case of his false belief that he has apprehended 'true nature'.....he's mistaken something that is an appearance only for his true nature!
Reefs, 'true nature' is only illuminated when seeing shifts to 'beyond/prior to' ALL appearance...ALL perceivables....ALL 'stains'.
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Post by Figgles on Jul 15, 2022 19:19:27 GMT
Oh, for freak's sake ZD...you've only shared that shit thousands of times over on ST....every 10 posts or so you reference your sacred CC/Kensho. I'm sure Satch is up to his eyeballs with that repetitive nature of that tired old, shared story of yours just as everyone else on these forums is.
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Post by Figgles on Jul 15, 2022 19:23:25 GMT
If there are no real people....just appearance only, then how is it that you somehow realize/know for absolute certain that appearing people ARE actually experiencing/perceiving?
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Post by Figgles on Jul 15, 2022 23:06:55 GMT
Self Realization = the seeing through of separation.
You say yourself that a CC is not necessary for that seeing through, but then also say that CC is something more than just insight....it involves numerous "important realizations."
Is there really something "more" than separation that needs to be seen through, or some kind of additional knowledge that needs to be acquired? What for? If there is freedom/peace....the absence of the imagined SVP, what is lacking?...what is still "needed"...and by whom is it needed?
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Post by Figgles on Jul 15, 2022 23:19:16 GMT
That knowing/seeing is relative, in the dream....entirely experiential...1st mountain position stuff.
From 1st mountain position, a myriad of answers will do; A living entity.....a vibrating, vibrant, alive, conscious being.....a perceiving/experiencing entity....whatever your experience of 'a cat' is, that's what you will say it 'actually is.'
But from the transcendent viewpoint (2nd mountain/3rd mountain position) the cat is indeed "an appearance," .....an experiential facet of the dream-scape...not actually an entity that is a perceiver/experiencer, after all.
At 3rd mountain/fully integrated SR, that latter position of seeing is primary and the the appearance of a perceiving/experiencing being, secondary, couched within the transcendent seeing.
Yeah, it's very clear you are entertaining a delusion....you are conceptualizing "Consciousness," as something that appearances are "comprised of,".....anything you could ever come up with to say "comprises" an appearance, would itself also be an appearance/perceivable. So long as you are focused upon "what" as you try to arrive at an understanding of "experiential content," you're going to be focused in entirely the wrong direction.
To see what I am saying/pointing to, the position of seeing has to shift from "in" the dream, to beyond/prior to. Only then will you see that what you are after when you seek to know "what lies beyond an appearance....what IS an appearance," is not actually/fundamentally a what at all!
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Post by Figgles on Jul 15, 2022 23:30:58 GMT
The cat IS an appearance arising within/to consciousness...there is nothing inherently existent 'within' the cat....the ground of consciousness is 'existent' and the temporal appearance of the cat is an ephemeral, empty of appearance within that.
A cat is only ever known about from the position of 'seeing/perceiving' a cat.
In SR, transcendent seeing, it's no longer "My/your" perception....all that is known is what currently exists and then what currently appears/arises within/to that....there is perception (singular) and there is it's content. It is clear by virtue of 'being true nature,' that that which abides and that which arises temporarily within/to that, is not fundamentally separate...the cat then is an apparent distinction/expression within/to the unwavering ground. That not though = knowing for absolute certain that the cat is a perceiving/experiencing entity.
People and animals (and for some, objects & things) as perceiving entities, is of the relative context...all appearance only....all experiential content.
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Post by Figgles on Jul 16, 2022 0:16:11 GMT
Realizing your true nature means the end of identification with appearing 'things/thing-ness.' It reveals that all apparent things are absent the inherent existence/unboundedness/limitless some-nothing, that you ARE...and that thusly, their temporal appearance "depends/relies upon" the abiding/unbounded for it's temporal, limited appearance.
The most 'fundamental' nature of any-thing is emptiness/no-thingness, and that is NOT what you 'think' it is!
It must be directly realized/seen/known here and NOW. Some-thingness/distinction is an appearance only...an expression of, arising within/to the abiding ground of awareness....the miracle of all miracles is that; no-thingness gives rise to apparent some-thingness.
If you realize fundamental emptiness of all apparent things, all thoughts, all ideas, it's that seeing of inherent emptiness (absence of inherent existence relative to any appearance) that equals separation itself dissolving....in that, (the end of the SVP) there's a shift in seeing FROM the apparent person, TO beyond/prior to that.
Yes, realizing "your" true nature....that it is NOT holed up "in" a body/mind/person...that rather, I am that which within the appearing body/mind arises/appears...that in actuality what I am is limitless, unbounded, unchanging, also means simultaneously realizing the true nature of everything else.....that in actuality, "MY true nature" is abiding and "every-thing else" is an appearance arising within/to that which IS abiding nature itself.
You see Reefs, there IS a distinction between unbounded ground of being and that which arises/appears within/to it....that distinction though, is NOT separation. Fundamentally, there is but one thingless thing that abides and expresses/appears as distinct...but, that thingless thing is beyond capture by mind or concepts.
Thus, for you to say that realizing "your" true nature means simultaneously seeing the true nature of all apparent things, does not mean you now see those apparent things as inherently existent, as is the ground from which they arise, nor does it mean you now know for certain that apparent things are 'perceiving/experiencing,' as that would be a reification of the "apparent."
"True nature" = that which is ground/base "fundamentally so." All that appears is indeed none-other than the abiding ground of awareness, temporally expressing as an apparent some-thing, but that does not then render all apparent some-thing's inherent nature as "actual/abiding/existent."
The apparent thing/object/appearance is a temporal, apparent distinction...at no point does it per se, as a thing, become "existent."
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2022 3:23:25 GMT
Bang-on there Satchi! But now, apply that to your insistence that practice is a sure and causal path to SR. Thank God we're still going to be able to disagree. 😆 |
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Post by Figgles on Jul 16, 2022 4:45:31 GMT
Bang-on there Satchi! But now, apply that to your insistence that practice is a sure and causal path to SR. Thank God we're still going to be able to disagree. 😆   |
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