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Post by Figgles on Apr 17, 2024 15:46:04 GMT
Yup...that "perfect unfolding" includes at times apparent people who are ignorant and behave in tyrannical ways, along with others who are kind, integral and wise.....all part of the natural "up/down" movement inherent to experience. Fundamentally, nothing gone wrong. Overall movement of universe and it's unfolding is fine. But if our rollercoaster's ups and down is not going well, then our experience would not be good for ourselves. Clarity would bring the ups and down to the correct limit. Yes, if I am grasping what you're saying, very much agree. An absence of clarity (presence of delusion, namely the delusion/illusion of separation) means that personal judgments extend to a depth, where fundamental condemnation is involved. It is the erroneous condemnation of the very fact of a "dip" in emotions/feelings, that drags them downward and anchors them. Otherwise, all dips are shallow and fluid/temporal.
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Post by Gopal on Apr 18, 2024 3:12:13 GMT
Overall movement of universe and it's unfolding is fine. But if our rollercoaster's ups and down is not going well, then our experience would not be good for ourselves. Clarity would bring the ups and down to the correct limit. Yes, if I am grasping what you're saying, very much agree. An absence of clarity (presence of delusion, namely the delusion/illusion of separation) means that personal judgments extend to a depth, where fundamental condemnation is involved. It is the erroneous condemnation of the very fact of a "dip" in emotions/feelings, that drags them downward and anchors them. Otherwise, all dips are shallow and fluid/temporal. The happy side and the unhappy side should each have their own limits. If either of them becomes too extreme, it can lead to problems. Usually, we don’t interfere with the happy side because it’s enjoyable, but we often try to manage the unhappy side because that’s where we start to suffer. We try to control them, so we attract the loss of control and then it goes too deep which in turn rises the happy side to too high. Once we recognize the illusion of control, we stop trying to manipulate the unhappy side of the rollercoaster of life, and instead, we allow things to be as they are.
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Post by Figgles on Apr 18, 2024 4:54:32 GMT
Yes, if I am grasping what you're saying, very much agree. An absence of clarity (presence of delusion, namely the delusion/illusion of separation) means that personal judgments extend to a depth, where fundamental condemnation is involved. It is the erroneous condemnation of the very fact of a "dip" in emotions/feelings, that drags them downward and anchors them. Otherwise, all dips are shallow and fluid/temporal. The happy side and the unhappy side should each have their own limits. If either of them becomes too extreme, it can lead to problems. Usually, we don’t interfere with the happy side because it’s enjoyable, but we often try to manage the unhappy side because that’s where we start to suffer. We try to control them, so we attract the loss of control and then it goes too deep which in turn rises the happy side to too high. Once we recognize the illusion of control, we stop trying to manipulate the unhappy side of the rollercoaster of life, and instead, we allow things to be as they are. I certainly agree that it's in the trying to manage emotions/feelings that problems arise. But the idea that there are limits to the "degree" of happy side of feeling scale, post SR..? Why would that be? All feelings on the up/down scale are possible when the SVP is absent, except those that hinge upon the delusion of fundamental/actual limitation/separation.
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Post by Gopal on Apr 18, 2024 6:37:53 GMT
The happy side and the unhappy side should each have their own limits. If either of them becomes too extreme, it can lead to problems. Usually, we don’t interfere with the happy side because it’s enjoyable, but we often try to manage the unhappy side because that’s where we start to suffer. We try to control them, so we attract the loss of control and then it goes too deep which in turn rises the happy side to too high. Once we recognize the illusion of control, we stop trying to manipulate the unhappy side of the rollercoaster of life, and instead, we allow things to be as they are. I certainly agree that it's in the trying to manage emotions/feelings that problems arise. But the idea that there are limits to the "degree" of happy side of feeling scale, post SR..? Why would that be? All feelings on the up/down scale are possible when the SVP is absent, except those that hinge upon the delusion of fundamental/actual limitation/separation. SVP is expressed or came into being when one manages the emotional rollercoaster. Pure witness doesn't manage the sides of the rollercoaster. One can't put himself into the pure witness mode directly. But when one begins to realize the illusion after illusion, he slowly back off his actions, he slowly moves towards the pure witness. For an example, when one realizes the illusion of control, he would no longer control, he would back off from controlling the action.
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Post by Figgles on Apr 18, 2024 18:42:26 GMT
I certainly agree that it's in the trying to manage emotions/feelings that problems arise. But the idea that there are limits to the "degree" of happy side of feeling scale, post SR..? Why would that be? All feelings on the up/down scale are possible when the SVP is absent, except those that hinge upon the delusion of fundamental/actual limitation/separation. SVP is expressed or came into being when one manages the emotional rollercoaster. Pure witness doesn't manage the sides of the rollercoaster. One can't put himself into the pure witness mode directly. But when one begins to realize the illusion after illusion, he slowly back off his actions, he slowly moves towards the pure witness. For an example, when one realizes the illusion of control, he would no longer control, he would back off from controlling the action. I think I mostly agree...although I suspect we might have slightly differing definitions of "pure witness,"...not entirely sure though. I would definitely put the bolded slightly differently to say instead; Interest in managing the emotional roller-coaster comes hand in hand with the presence of an imagined SVP. And that is precisely why an interest in practicing LOA serves as a strong litmus test for where one is re: SR/awakening. Being awake means there's no longer an SVP in the mix, which necessarily means, there is no longer an interest in controlling the natural up/down motions of emotional/feeling experience.
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Post by Figgles on Apr 18, 2024 18:46:50 GMT
Re: emotions that are very high up on the emotional scale;
Emotions that are not intrinsically tied to the presence of an erroneous SVP, erroneous, imagined “fundamental” separation, arise freely…..the entire gamut (minus those feelings/emotions) that have erroneous separation tied to them, remains possible.
A sky-high feeling of joy may indeed be partly reflective of a particular happening, but that sense of joy is not inextricably “tied to” any particular conditions, as it is when an SVP is in play.
That’s really the important factor; Is the arising feeling/emotion “inextricably tied to” the condition? Where there is identification with "some-thing-ness" there will be that inextricable tie between an apparent condition and the accompanying emotion/feeling. In SR, that is not the case.
A momentary arising of joy in the SR, is not inextricably tied to an apparent condition as it is in one who is still fast asleep, mistaking apparent distinction for actual separation. The moment the joy begins to ebb into a feeling that is lower in intensity, that ebbing is accepteded/allowed....and not even in any sort of conscious way....there is simply an "absence" of a sense of something going wrong as the joy ebbs into something less intense.
Whereas, in the non-SR, there is a grasping to try to hold onto that upper echelon feeling state.
The low/lows on the emotional scale that reflect an overlay of mind that fundamentally judges the condition to be ‘wrong/bad/something gone fundamentally, existentially awry, no longer arise once there is no longer an imagined SVP in play.
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Post by Figgles on Apr 19, 2024 16:15:29 GMT
In other words, spoken like someone who tells lies and panders to egoic mind, the imagined SVP, to sell books...? At best, what Tolle is doing is luring seekers in, by pandering to their egoic, need-based desires to have experience conform with their limitation-based, fundamentally-deep, personal judgments about what IS, to then, slap with the Truth, which of course they cannot hear/grasp in the way it is meant to be (realized) as they are hearing it from a position of being mired within personhood/the dream. Why not just tell seekers LOA/deliberate creation is a lie? Well, it's obvious, you catch far more flies with honey than vinegar. He props up the delusion of being a some-thing/some-one that can be "connected to Oneness," which is both a reification of the apparent me/entity as well as a conceptualization of "Oneness." The last line there, if truly realized, reveals the previous lie being told. Abe-Hicks don't go that far as to assert any-thing/non-thing that actually "transcends" the world of physical forms, rather, they assert physical forms/persons to be "extensions of" Source, thereby, a cake that can be both kept, and eaten! They stop at an existent person/form that can either be "connected or disconnected" from Source, thereby, they invoke and reify actual, fundamental separation/independent fundamental existence. So only "bingocherry" if you have mistaken phenomenal unity/connection for the pointer "Oneness." Many will say that a conceptual grasp on what Nonduality teachings point to is better than none, but I'm not so sure. I think if one is mired within the dream, far better to work with relative self-help practices that don't strengthen and fortify egoic mind the way LOA/deliberate creation, for example, does.
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farmer
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Carrys Purses
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Post by farmer on Apr 22, 2024 9:23:19 GMT
For fun I post to this Reefs forum. But they ban and delete my posts because I don't take his/her/their "spirituality" seriously. Very funny. This post below will be deleted very quickly. What’s up dude? Yeah the obsessive never ending compulsion to look for imbalances between talk and walk seems like pretty sloppy thinking for sure
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Post by user673 on Apr 22, 2024 19:10:26 GMT
For fun I post to this Reefs forum. But they ban and delete my posts because I don't take his/her/their "spirituality" seriously. Very funny. This post below will be deleted very quickly. What’s up dude? Yeah the obsessive never ending compulsion to look for imbalances between talk and walk seems like pretty sloppy thinking for sure Yo. Trolling the spiritual posers can be fun sometimes, and might even help people wake up, but sure, probably better not to make it into a constant habit.
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farmer
Full Member
Carrys Purses
Posts: 167
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Post by farmer on Apr 22, 2024 22:24:29 GMT
What’s up dude? Yeah the obsessive never ending compulsion to look for imbalances between talk and walk seems like pretty sloppy thinking for sure Yo. Trolling the spiritual posers can be fun sometimes, and might even help people wake up, but sure, probably better not to make it into a constant habit. “Poser” is a judgement and a comparison… neither one of which is what you’d call a good thing
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