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Post by Theodore on Jun 14, 2017 1:51:44 GMT
It wasn't a matter of changing my mind. Friday night was a piecemeal discussion. A little bit here, and a little bit there. Saturday morning I was preparing for a round of golf. I wanted to sit quietly. That's very fair. I like the 'avant garde way' description. In the past, I've described 'conditioning' as 'everything'. But what do you mean by perfection? And how can mind obfuscate it? One could say that mind is perfect already. And it sometimes healing just never comes. You can't heal from amputation, you can't heal from unwanted death. Emotional healing for so many of us, never comes. One good conversation with people can show you that some burdens are carried forever. So what?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2017 13:16:14 GMT
It wasn't a matter of changing my mind. Friday night was a piecemeal discussion. A little bit here, and a little bit there. Saturday morning I was preparing for a round of golf. I wanted to sit quietly. That's very fair. I like the 'avant garde way' description. In the past, I've described 'conditioning' as 'everything'. But what do you mean by perfection? And how can mind obfuscate it? One could say that mind is perfect already. And it sometimes healing just never comes. You can't heal from amputation, you can't heal from unwanted death. Emotional healing for so many of us, never comes. One good conversation with people can show you that some burdens are carried forever. So what? Fair is as fair does. Perfection- Seeing clearly without the mind's baggage (obfuscation). Knowing everything is the same thing. Source. Without a quiet mind (empty cognizance) we couldn't have thoughts. The quality of our thoughts are influenced by Being, which influences feeling, which in turn influences thinking, and doing. You mentioned- "And it sometimes healing just never comes. You can't heal from amputation, you can't heal from unwanted death. Emotional healing for so many of us, never comes. One good conversation with people can show you that some burdens are carried forever." These things kind of point back to- whatever the mind thinks of, that alone it sees. We can make a different choice whenever we wish. "He who binds to himself a joy Does the winged life destroy, But he who kisses the joy as it flies Lives in eternity's sunrise." -William Blake, "Eternity"
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Enigma
Super Duper Senior Member
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Post by Enigma on Jun 14, 2017 15:23:32 GMT
I agree. There is indeed a natural, built-in propensity to avoid discomfort and seek comfort, (as I said previously)...in all organisms from what I can see. But I don't see direct solutions to mitigate discomfort to at all be at odds with so called, 'less direct' solutions. They can abide together. I can swipe away a spider off my arm to prevent it from stinging me, AND simultaneously see that the squeamishness I continue to experience even though the spider is long gone, is mind created. (note; there need not be any vilification of mind in any of that seeing). The awareness of what's happening with mind, need not interfere with taking practical action that needs to be taken...in fact, the more calm mind is, the clearer the avenue to that practical action. Have you ever seen someone who was very afraid of spiders for example, freak out and start slapping themselves everywhere....losing sight of the spider, only to freak out more as they discover it's now escaped down his shirt..? Well, the general idea is, drugs could mitigate discomfort, but they are not direct solutions to the problem you are facing. Therefore they are avoiding tactics, and they fuck you up as well. Can they abide together with the root of your discomfort? They actually can't! There is a reason for the mind to be doing that with spiders. Something happened there. That is to be adressed. Calm mind isn't the end-all be-all. Calm mind is a consequence. A consequence of being good at what you are doing. We mistake the ends with the means, the effects and the roots. If I haven't had, say, family troubles, I wouldn't be thinking about family and I would have a calm mind, but now I am thinking about it, the trouble isn't that I'm thinking about the family troubles. The trouble is the family troubles. So let's adress the actual problem, rather than thinking there's something wrong with my mind.I actually agree with that. That's why some of us talk about clarity and purification and not so much about meditating to stop thoughts.
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Post by Figgles on Jun 14, 2017 16:06:50 GMT
Well, the general idea is, drugs could mitigate discomfort, but they are not direct solutions to the problem you are facing. Therefore they are avoiding tactics, and they fuck you up as well. Can they abide together with the root of your discomfort? They actually can't! There is a reason for the mind to be doing that with spiders. Something happened there. That is to be adressed. Calm mind isn't the end-all be-all. Calm mind is a consequence. A consequence of being good at what you are doing. We mistake the ends with the means, the effects and the roots. If I haven't had, say, family troubles, I wouldn't be thinking about family and I would have a calm mind, but now I am thinking about it, the trouble isn't that I'm thinking about the family troubles. The trouble is the family troubles. So let's adress the actual problem, rather than thinking there's something wrong with my mind.I actually agree with that. That's why some of us talk about clarity and purification and not so much about meditating to stop thoughts. The urge and follow through for a moment of meditation, can also be seen as a 'consequence.' Initially, the urge might arise in response to an intent to 'escape' thought, (that too though, is a consequence) but as things unfold, meditation becomes a way of being, something that 'just happens,'.....as a result of being clear and pure. And yes, you do talk about clarity lots. But alongside that, you also mention equally as much, "noticing,"...which for me, is the equivalent of silencing mind, with a particular goal/intent...not so different at all...in fact the very same 'directing of focus' is being employed in both cases,
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Post by Theodore on Jun 14, 2017 23:08:45 GMT
That's very fair. I like the 'avant garde way' description. In the past, I've described 'conditioning' as 'everything'. But what do you mean by perfection? And how can mind obfuscate it? One could say that mind is perfect already. And it sometimes healing just never comes. You can't heal from amputation, you can't heal from unwanted death. Emotional healing for so many of us, never comes. One good conversation with people can show you that some burdens are carried forever. So what? Fair is as fair does. Perfection- Seeing clearly without the mind's baggage (obfuscation). Knowing everything is the same thing. Source. Without a quiet mind (empty cognizance) we couldn't have thoughts. The quality of our thoughts are influenced by Being, which influences feeling, which in turn influences thinking, and doing. You mentioned- "And it sometimes healing just never comes. You can't heal from amputation, you can't heal from unwanted death. Emotional healing for so many of us, never comes. One good conversation with people can show you that some burdens are carried forever." These things kind of point back to- whatever the mind thinks of, that alone it sees. We can make a different choice whenever we wish. "He who binds to himself a joy Does the winged life destroy, But he who kisses the joy as it flies Lives in eternity's sunrise." -William Blake, "Eternity" Yeah, This child had the choice to immerse itself in the joy of the source, instead it got stricken by famine and almost got eaten by a bird of prey. It's all in the mind. Nothing to see here folks. I'm sorry ishimaru, your writing just doesn't make much sense to me.
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Post by Theodore on Jun 14, 2017 23:09:56 GMT
Well, the general idea is, drugs could mitigate discomfort, but they are not direct solutions to the problem you are facing. Therefore they are avoiding tactics, and they fuck you up as well. Can they abide together with the root of your discomfort? They actually can't! There is a reason for the mind to be doing that with spiders. Something happened there. That is to be adressed. Calm mind isn't the end-all be-all. Calm mind is a consequence. A consequence of being good at what you are doing. We mistake the ends with the means, the effects and the roots. If I haven't had, say, family troubles, I wouldn't be thinking about family and I would have a calm mind, but now I am thinking about it, the trouble isn't that I'm thinking about the family troubles. The trouble is the family troubles. So let's adress the actual problem, rather than thinking there's something wrong with my mind.I actually agree with that. That's why some of us talk about clarity and purification and not so much about meditating to stop thoughts. Purification of what in terms of what? And what for? What's impure and why purify it?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2017 23:29:33 GMT
Fair is as fair does. Perfection- Seeing clearly without the mind's baggage (obfuscation). Knowing everything is the same thing. Source. Without a quiet mind (empty cognizance) we couldn't have thoughts. The quality of our thoughts are influenced by Being, which influences feeling, which in turn influences thinking, and doing. You mentioned- "And it sometimes healing just never comes. You can't heal from amputation, you can't heal from unwanted death. Emotional healing for so many of us, never comes. One good conversation with people can show you that some burdens are carried forever." These things kind of point back to- whatever the mind thinks of, that alone it sees. We can make a different choice whenever we wish. "He who binds to himself a joy Does the winged life destroy, But he who kisses the joy as it flies Lives in eternity's sunrise." -William Blake, "Eternity" Yeah, This child had the choice to immerse itself in the joy of the source, instead it got stricken by famine and almost got eaten by a bird of prey. It's all in the mind. Nothing to see here folks. He did? He looks to be quite young, and living in a rather desolate area. I didn't run across the option to choose until I was in my late 40's. The pic could have easily been me at some point prior to that choice in life. But I do know this. As unawake as I was prior to making that choice, I wouldn't have used an image such as that to make a point. How did you feel when you posted it?
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Post by Theodore on Jun 14, 2017 23:33:33 GMT
Yeah, This child had the choice to immerse itself in the joy of the source, instead it got stricken by famine and almost got eaten by a bird of prey. It's all in the mind. Nothing to see here folks. He did? He looks to be quite young, and living in a rather desolate area. I didn't run across the option to choose until I was in my late 40's. The pic could have easily been me at some point prior to that choice in life. But I do know this. As unawake as I was prior to making that choice, I wouldn't have used an image such as that to make a point. How did you feel when you posted it? I felt that it was a great representation of having no choice and why meditation for happiness is such a hoax, and I wondered if I'm wasting my time. I don't think I am.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2017 23:39:41 GMT
He did? He looks to be quite young, and living in a rather desolate area. I didn't run across the option to choose until I was in my late 40's. The pic could have easily been me at some point prior to that choice in life. But I do know this. As unawake as I was prior to making that choice, I wouldn't have used an image such as that to make a point. How did you feel when you posted it? I felt that it was a great representation of having no choice and why meditation for happiness is such a hoax, and I wondered if I'm wasting my time. I don't think I am. What kind of choices would you have really had at such a young age? Aren't they limited by what the parents can provide?
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Post by Theodore on Jun 14, 2017 23:42:08 GMT
I felt that it was a great representation of having no choice and why meditation for happiness is such a hoax, and I wondered if I'm wasting my time. I don't think I am. What kind of choices would you have really had at such a young age? Aren't they limited by what the parents can provide? They are the same ones I have right now, dear
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