Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2022 9:27:10 GMT
Can you offer up a specific example of where I did not properly read and assimilate your comment? That's easy. Pick any one of my comments at random together with your response and you will have an example. |
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Tenka
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Post by Tenka on Feb 6, 2022 11:12:47 GMT
You said so yourself a while back that the way you talk here is not how you talk in ordinary life . What I recall saying in that vein, is I don't just go up to folks in my day to day life and start Truth-talking with them...it's reserved for those who express interest, thus, it usually happens on forum. What terms in particular are having difficulty grasping? The term "appearance" references absolutely anything that is perceived/anything that is thought, sensed, seen, heard....all facets of experience. What makes all appearance empty is that it has no inherent existence on it's own....it arises dependent upon the ground of awareness. Do you not have any reference for what it meant by 'ground of awareness'? I'd think by now, years since you first started partaking in these discussions, you might at least have some kind of a conceptual grasp on the terms used. Like it or not, due to the nature of what is being addressed, conversations about the relative are going to be different (use different terms) than conversations that attempt to point to the absolute/beyond. Everything to do with appearances arising empty of Truth just reflects stuff that you don't know anything about . This is the merry-go-round . If I ask you a straight forward question, it's either a misconceived question or you simply revert to your non duality talk .. Nothing has been realised as this . Then the pointers come in to it, which has it's own set of issues . Then the dream analogy or metaphor turns in to an actual and vice versa . Like said, you need to know or have realised what you are is fundamentally to then reflect and assert that to all things . The confusion you have is that you can say what appearances are not, and yet you don't know what the nature of the appearances are . Everything goes round and round and round with this non duality talk . You have non duality folk saying there's no one there, and then speak about this no one here peep taking their power back lol .. It's all a mess, full of contradictions, which I have forever pointed out . Instead of addressing the natural processes regarding how things appear you want to address my so called contempt for non duality talk . I would simply appreciate a chat about reality, oneness, non duality, Self realisation without the nonsense, without the b.s. It really doesn't make sense to me for peeps to talk one way on a forum and another way in real life . What's that achieving? |
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Tenka
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 3,647
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Post by Tenka on Feb 6, 2022 11:26:34 GMT
Either way, you know that appearances just don't arise . Processes seen through are still referencing, appearances that arise through a process. You can say that these processes are real or not, causal or not, but you don't just see a tree appear in front of your eyes do you that reflects a mature tree that has 100 years of growth . You can say this process is a load of bollocks, you can say that the birthing of your kids as just a dream, butt without the natural process occurring, there would never be a tree or a child to be seen to appear in the first place . So let me say it again, you do know how appearances arise, they don't just arise, they go through a process that you can then see through or not . It's not helpful at all when you keep swapping premises, one minute you do know, the next you don't . Then what you do know, is either illusory or dreamy or not . This is why conversations go on for years .. I have had another relatively short spell of talking to you about the nature of appearances, butt it again falls short because of the lack of knowing what consciousness is, what is being pointed too, what is a dream or not, what is a metaphor or not, what is a real or not .. This is why I have said often that it's just like a slippery fish without any sound foundation whatsoever .
Non duality talk just goes round and round without any sense at all .I watched a YouTube video the other day, there was a channel ' medium and a bloke that follows the buddhist path .. It made me chuckle because he said the most common misunderstanding had is self and no self . I had to laugh because he said the same thing as I do about the self being some kind of illusory appearance that isn't really here . This then reflects upon dream world realities and appearances arising which is daft as a brush .. What's interesting though Tenka, is that although throughout the years you've continued to express contempt for Nonduality talk, and even after all these years, just now you full out admit and demonstrate, you have very low understanding of the terms used, you keep coming back to engage in these discussions. What's that about do you think? There are lots of spiritual forums whose subject matter caters to more new agey topics that would likely be more to your liking, and yet, you continue to engage in spiritual discussions that are geared towards Nonduality. If you find it nothing more than a heap of cow dung, why not just ignore the Nonduality stuff? A really, really good question to sit with if you're up for it.  Peeps seem to make up there own ideas about what things are . I don't follow the non duality code book that you follow . It makes no sense to me . I have my own understandings of what Self is, mind, is, self is etc .. Why would I follow your understandings for example when you have no actual answers to my questions on them, and haven't realised anything that relates to what you declare as being the way things are . Why do you continue to over the years say the same things with nothing to back any of it up . We are not really any further down the line at all regarding the nature of appearances other than there was the admittance that the dream world analogy was simply that . It's not actual it's only a pointer to Truth lol . Well if it's not actual, then what is it . You see these fundamental foundations about reality needs to be known, not pointed to in reflection of a non conceptual realisation . Again, like said, in the beingness of what you are, there is no realisation to what that is . So your living some kind of dream that isn't an actual dream, and you know what appearances are not, and yet you can't know if the hubby is conscious or not, you don't relate him to be an actual individual because you have a set premise of what that refers too, based upon more mindfulness .. So it doesn't matter which way we turn in regards to conversation, it's met with all these floating foundations .. You keep pointing me away to new age forums, that's kinda odd considering the nature of certain conversations had of late .. from this forum and a certain other .. So what do you want from this forum, everyone to agree with your non duality talk? Anyone that questions your contradictions needs to go look for a new age comparison site? If your foundation stood up, you wouldn't need to question why I am here at all . |
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Post by Figgles on Feb 7, 2022 3:44:55 GMT
What's interesting though Tenka, is that although throughout the years you've continued to express contempt for Nonduality talk, and even after all these years, just now you full out admit and demonstrate, you have very low understanding of the terms used, you keep coming back to engage in these discussions. What's that about do you think? There are lots of spiritual forums whose subject matter caters to more new agey topics that would likely be more to your liking, and yet, you continue to engage in spiritual discussions that are geared towards Nonduality. If you find it nothing more than a heap of cow dung, why not just ignore the Nonduality stuff? A really, really good question to sit with if you're up for it. Peeps seem to make up there own ideas about what things are . I don't follow the non duality code book that you follow . It makes no sense to me . I have my own understandings of what Self is, mind, is, self is etc .. Why would I follow your understandings for example when you have no actual answers to my questions on them, and haven't realised anything that relates to what you declare as being the way things are . Why do you continue to over the years say the same things with nothing to back any of it up . We are not really any further down the line at all regarding the nature of appearances other than there was the admittance that the dream world analogy was simply that . It's not actual it's only a pointer to Truth lol . Well if it's not actual, then what is it . You see these fundamental foundations about reality needs to be known, not pointed to in reflection of a non conceptual realisation . Again, like said, in the beingness of what you are, there is no realisation to what that is . So your living some kind of dream that isn't an actual dream, and you know what appearances are not, and yet you can't know if the hubby is conscious or not, you don't relate him to be an actual individual because you have a set premise of what that refers too, based upon more mindfulness .. So it doesn't matter which way we turn in regards to conversation, it's met with all these floating foundations .. You keep pointing me away to new age forums, that's kinda odd considering the nature of certain conversations had of late .. from this forum and a certain other ..
So what do you want from this forum, everyone to agree with your non duality talk?
Anyone that questions your contradictions needs to go look for a new age comparison site?If your foundation stood up, you wouldn't need to question why I am here at all . Not at all. I really am just curious how you yourself reconcile your obvious continued interest to engage in these discussions with your strong disdain for the content of them. |
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Post by Figgles on Feb 7, 2022 3:49:27 GMT
What I recall saying in that vein, is I don't just go up to folks in my day to day life and start Truth-talking with them...it's reserved for those who express interest, thus, it usually happens on forum. What terms in particular are having difficulty grasping? The term "appearance" references absolutely anything that is perceived/anything that is thought, sensed, seen, heard....all facets of experience. What makes all appearance empty is that it has no inherent existence on it's own....it arises dependent upon the ground of awareness. Do you not have any reference for what it meant by 'ground of awareness'? I'd think by now, years since you first started partaking in these discussions, you might at least have some kind of a conceptual grasp on the terms used. Like it or not, due to the nature of what is being addressed, conversations about the relative are going to be different (use different terms) than conversations that attempt to point to the absolute/beyond. Everything to do with appearances arising empty of Truth just reflects stuff that you don't know anything about . This is the merry-go-round . If I ask you a straight forward question, it's either a misconceived question or you simply revert to your non duality talk .. Nothing has been realised as this . Then the pointers come in to it, which has it's own set of issues . Then the dream analogy or metaphor turns in to an actual and vice versa . Like said, you need to know or have realised what you are is fundamentally to then reflect and assert that to all things . The confusion you have is that you can say what appearances are not, and yet you don't know what the nature of the appearances are . Everything goes round and round and round with this non duality talk . You have non duality folk saying there's no one there, and then speak about this no one here peep taking their power back lol .. It's all a mess, full of contradictions, which I have forever pointed out . Instead of addressing the natural processes regarding how things appear you want to address my so called contempt for non duality talk . I would simply appreciate a chat about reality, oneness, non duality, Self realisation without the nonsense, without the b.s.
It really doesn't make sense to me for peeps to talk one way on a forum and another way in real life .
What's that achieving? But I never said that is the case. If I'm having a conversation off forum, "about Nonduality" the same pointers/language will be used....regardless of where the conversation is had, Truth-talk is always, always, always, pointing to the same "_________________". What you asking me to do is to stop talking about Truth when I converse with you and instead engage your relative, new age ideas, and go along with the idea that they represent absolute Truth, when they do not. |
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Post by Figgles on Feb 7, 2022 3:52:42 GMT
Can you offer up a specific example of where I did not properly read and assimilate your comment? That's easy. Pick any one of my comments at random together with your response and you will have an example. Should be easy then to provide an example to demonstrate what you are talking about. I suspect you read Gopal's drive-by comment and then figured you'd piggy-back on that....notice that he too failed to come up with any actual example to back up his accusation. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2022 4:14:53 GMT
That's easy. Pick any one of my comments at random together with your response and you will have an example. okay, how about this one. Where did I fail to properly read & assimilate your comment, as per my response? You are referring to this quote from Sailor Bob. "Just come back to the sense of presence that you are, and realize that that is birth-less, deathless, timeless, spaceless, bodiless and mindless." - SB Let's do something different and pretend I made that quote not sailor Bob and I will respond to it as if I was Figgles. Come back to where? Where have you been? You are always here. The idea of coming back to a sense of presence is a split mind. There is no separate individual who is not already that deathless timeless presence. You are mistaking this timeless presence as something that is experienced by someone who is capable of coming back to it and going away from it as if it were an object, but it is beyond experience. If it is realized then there is no going away from it or coming back to it. You are already that. When the SVP is seen through you will realize that there is no one who is deathless timeless and spaceless. If you are having a sense of presence then you haven't gone beyond the mind. |
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Post by Figgles on Feb 7, 2022 4:21:23 GMT
okay, how about this one. Where did I fail to properly read & assimilate your comment, as per my response? You are referring to this quote from Sailor Bob. "Just come back to the sense of presence that you are, and realize that that is birth-less, deathless, timeless, spaceless, bodiless and mindless." - SB
Let's do something different and pretend I made that quote not sailor Bob and I will respond to it as if I was Figgles.Come back to where? Where have you been? You are always here. The idea of coming back to a sense of presence is a split mind. There is no separate individual who is not already that deathless timeless presence. You are mistaking this timeless presence as something that is experienced by someone who is capable of coming back to it and going away from it as if it were an object, but it is beyond experience. If it is realized then there is no going away from it or coming back to it. You are already that. When the SVP is seen through you will realize that there is no one who is deathless timeless and spaceless. If you are having a sense of presence then you haven't gone beyond the mind. How about we stick with the exchange we're currently having, (where you just asserted that 'every single exchange we have, I am failing to properly read and assimilate your comment') and you indicate using my actual response, not some made up one, how specifically I have done that. |
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Tenka
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 3,647
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Post by Tenka on Feb 11, 2022 19:47:47 GMT
Peeps seem to make up there own ideas about what things are . I don't follow the non duality code book that you follow . It makes no sense to me . I have my own understandings of what Self is, mind, is, self is etc .. Why would I follow your understandings for example when you have no actual answers to my questions on them, and haven't realised anything that relates to what you declare as being the way things are . Why do you continue to over the years say the same things with nothing to back any of it up . We are not really any further down the line at all regarding the nature of appearances other than there was the admittance that the dream world analogy was simply that . It's not actual it's only a pointer to Truth lol . Well if it's not actual, then what is it . You see these fundamental foundations about reality needs to be known, not pointed to in reflection of a non conceptual realisation . Again, like said, in the beingness of what you are, there is no realisation to what that is . So your living some kind of dream that isn't an actual dream, and you know what appearances are not, and yet you can't know if the hubby is conscious or not, you don't relate him to be an actual individual because you have a set premise of what that refers too, based upon more mindfulness .. So it doesn't matter which way we turn in regards to conversation, it's met with all these floating foundations .. You keep pointing me away to new age forums, that's kinda odd considering the nature of certain conversations had of late .. from this forum and a certain other ..
So what do you want from this forum, everyone to agree with your non duality talk?
Anyone that questions your contradictions needs to go look for a new age comparison site?If your foundation stood up, you wouldn't need to question why I am here at all . Not at all. I really am just curious how you yourself reconcile your obvious continued interest to engage in these discussions with your strong disdain for the content of them. It's interesting each time from what I have said, what you only reply too . And again, I will say that it's quite obvious why I find it utterly ridiculous how non dualist's talk . You see I have had some wonderfully deep and meaningful conversations in the past about life, about spirituality, about what we are .. and yet there is no requirement to talk like some non dualist bot who talks in a certain way where nothing makes any sense . This is the point I am making . It's easy to talk about what you are without all this nonsense . All this nonsense that evolves around appearances simply appearing absent of truth . As said, these foundational premises made are never explained as actualities, there just runaround analogies and metaphors that always never hit the mark . There isn't the need need for them . Just talk as is of life, not like some non duality bot reading from the scriptures . |
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Tenka
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 3,647
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Post by Tenka on Feb 11, 2022 19:59:27 GMT
Everything to do with appearances arising empty of Truth just reflects stuff that you don't know anything about . This is the merry-go-round . If I ask you a straight forward question, it's either a misconceived question or you simply revert to your non duality talk .. Nothing has been realised as this . Then the pointers come in to it, which has it's own set of issues . Then the dream analogy or metaphor turns in to an actual and vice versa . Like said, you need to know or have realised what you are is fundamentally to then reflect and assert that to all things . The confusion you have is that you can say what appearances are not, and yet you don't know what the nature of the appearances are . Everything goes round and round and round with this non duality talk . You have non duality folk saying there's no one there, and then speak about this no one here peep taking their power back lol .. It's all a mess, full of contradictions, which I have forever pointed out . Instead of addressing the natural processes regarding how things appear you want to address my so called contempt for non duality talk . I would simply appreciate a chat about reality, oneness, non duality, Self realisation without the nonsense, without the b.s.
It really doesn't make sense to me for peeps to talk one way on a forum and another way in real life .
What's that achieving? But I never said that is the case. If I'm having a conversation off forum, "about Nonduality" the same pointers/language will be used....regardless of where the conversation is had, Truth-talk is always, always, always, pointing to the same "_________________". What you asking me to do is to stop talking about Truth when I converse with you and instead engage your relative, new age ideas, and go along with the idea that they represent absolute Truth, when they do not. Nah, I am not at all .. and for the record you can talk as you like .. All I am saying is that it's bonkers talking in a way that isn't a natural expression . It's not lived . Your non duality talk is based upon stuff that isn't realised . I don't relate to your Truth at all in the ways that you present pointers to it . All this stuff about appearances and consciousness that are just made up stuff that you refer to as pointers to Truth . I am curious about what new age ideas you think I have lol .. it's a bit weird .. My experiences of a variety of energies and dimensions doesn't cloud my knowing of what I am, and I have never brought those experiences into the fold when speaking about there is only what you are . I am not sure why you are putting me in a certain way to discredit me somehow . Sounds like to be a divergent tactic - |
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