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Post by Figgles on Nov 30, 2022 3:01:27 GMT
The "me" as an appearance does not need to end for suffering to cease. Just the imagined "separate/volitional" me.
A "me character" continues to appear so long as the dream continues to arise.
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Post by Figgles on Dec 11, 2022 3:03:13 GMT
True!... non-doership cannot be chosen, but it also is not conditional upon doing some sort of practice. In the bolded you are making it sound as though the absence of a doer it both spontaneously realized AND conditional upon doing a practice. It IS spontaneous indeed, but the idea that it is at all conditional is simply not so.
Where a particular practice "correlates" with SR, it remains just that...a correlation and not a cause/condition to SR.
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Post by Figgles on Dec 18, 2022 4:33:28 GMT
Imagine a world where regardless of knowledge or lack thereof on the person's part about what is good for them, regardless of their desire and regardless of confidence to pursue such, that which is ultimately, fundamentally perfect, is always what's happening!
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Post by Figgles on Dec 21, 2022 20:50:29 GMT
That is precisely what gets seen through in SR/awakening. You are quite perfectly describing the imagined, ultimately non-existent, SVP.
A "me" that is aware...a gestalt of consciousness....an aware 'entity/someone/something,' IS what the term SVP is referencing. It's entirely imaginary....it does not even appear, but rather is erroneously inferred based upon faulty identification with apparent personhood.
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Post by Figgles on Dec 21, 2022 20:52:03 GMT
Bingo.
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Post by Figgles on Dec 21, 2022 20:59:22 GMT
At what point does a discussion become a 'debate'? It's the moment where argument happens...and you've crossed that line. Your fear of abject debate hinges upon a fear of having your nicely sewn up, personal belief system about all the 'hows/whys' of life, demolished.
I get it. It sounds like you've worked quite hard, likely over time to piece by piece, assemble a working model that makes intellectual sense. Here's a hint; If it makes intellectual sense....if it satisfied mind/ego.....if it offers a sense of hope to the person that he actually does have control over what happens in the story, it 'aint IT.
Yup....and when you add fundamental existence in it's own right to that "functional unit," that's where the erroneous idea of SVP enters in.
A bunch of patterns.....a cohesive personality do not a separate entity make. Mind mistakes those apparent structured patterns for "some-thing" that has it's own inherent existence.....for a something that 'creates' other some-things. It's all a mistake of mind.
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Post by Figgles on Dec 22, 2022 20:51:56 GMT
The difference between a 'religious' or New agey sort of "enlightenment" vs. awakening to the Truth of Nonduality, is that the realization of Oneness really is a subtraction of knowledge vs. the adding OF new knowledge.
SR is a paring down of previous, erroneous knowing to the fundamentals of what can be clearly and easily seen when those erroneous knowings are no longer in the way, obscuring what is so clearly and obviously otherwise, self-evident.
That pure awareness, as ground, abides and gives rise to all appearance is plain and simply, starkly obvious once the delusion of separation is no longer in play.
This is not a something "new" that is known, but rather, it's a seeing through of the false. When separation is absent, Oneness becomes obvious.
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Post by Figgles on Dec 22, 2022 20:55:04 GMT
I think if you look closely, there is a common thread that runs through many of those..and that is 'an absence'... There are different ways of talking about/pointing to that, but ultimately, the crux is the same.
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Post by Figgles on Dec 22, 2022 20:57:21 GMT
The realm of 'systems of belief and assumptions,' is not Nonduality/SR. You continue to talk New Age, whereas absolute Truth lies beyond ALL content.
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Post by Figgles on Dec 22, 2022 21:01:54 GMT
But you are arguing for the merits of your version of Truth....you are just doing it on tippy-toes...avoiding answering direct challenges, but still making your points in counter to what others are asserting. You are lacking in self-awareness it seems and if getting clear is something that interests you, that might be a good place to begin with some self-inquiry.
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