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Post by Figgles on Jul 12, 2021 5:21:17 GMT
Yes, The quote below is indicating that to BE free 'from' self/the phenomenal/dream/story, thought need t not cease. A freedom that requires the absence of thought...the absence of minding, thinking, ideation/conceptualization, is a very, very conditional kind of freedom. Not 'really' freedom at all. In freedom 'from' thoughts/ideas, yes, thoughts still register...there is still understanding, it's simply that now, the place from which it's all being seen is from 'beyond' the realm of thoughts and all appearance, vs. being tied up in/as appearance, which means, awareness is no longer 'seemingly' bound 'by/in' thought. Mind is what running the entire show! Awareness is not running the show. Hey Gopal.  Not sure what you mean by "running the entire show"....can you elaborate? |
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Post by Gopal on Jul 12, 2021 5:34:45 GMT
Mind is what running the entire show! Awareness is not running the show. Hey Gopal. Not sure what you mean by "running the entire show"....can you elaborate? Hey Hi!
Who is creating the reality? Awareness or mind?
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Esponja
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 1,742
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Post by Esponja on Jul 12, 2021 8:23:10 GMT
Hey Gopal. Not sure what you mean by "running the entire show"....can you elaborate? Hey Hi!
Who is creating the reality? Awareness or mind?
Nothing. There’s no ‘who’. That’s the difficult part for the mind because the mind is always objectifying. The mind is empty and can not create anything. How could it? It’s whatever intelligence beats the heart, grows the hair, ages the body etc |
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Post by Figgles on Jul 12, 2021 18:23:48 GMT
Hey Gopal. Not sure what you mean by "running the entire show"....can you elaborate? Hey Hi! Who is creating the reality? Awareness or mind?
The question is misconceived. |
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Post by Gopal on Jul 13, 2021 11:25:15 GMT
Hey Hi!
Who is creating the reality? Awareness or mind?
Nothing. There’s no ‘who’. That’s the difficult part for the mind because the mind is always objectifying. The mind is empty and can not create anything. How could it?
It’s whatever intelligence beats the heart, grows the hair, ages the body etc Then we both are sharing the same intelligence, yes? We must be having a similar experience, no? For an example, let's assume you are enlightened but I am not, So you don't suffer but I suffer. If Intelligence is creating then we must be having the similar experience, eh? |
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Post by Gopal on Jul 13, 2021 11:26:09 GMT
Hey Hi! Who is creating the reality? Awareness or mind?
The question is misconceived. No problem! |
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Post by Figgles on Aug 13, 2021 19:10:11 GMT
You seem to waver between the idea that it's not at all important whether or not thought/intellect is engaged or not, vs. unless there's an absence of thought about stuff seen/appearing things, there is necessarily a sense of separation/duality.
Regardless of whether or not there is thought about appearing things, about the world, about objects, etc, the observer and the observed are still "One." So long as that's been realized, intellect, thinking about things, is not a problem.
Appearing distinctions is not what needs to be seen through, imagined separation, IS.
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Post by Figgles on Aug 13, 2021 19:18:29 GMT
Zd puts forth the idea that so long as things/objects are being identified, 'duality' is necessarily in play....that thing/objects must be collapsed into a singular, unified field of aliveness, and it's in that collapse of objects, that he says the realization of Oneness/no separation then comes to the forefront. What he's missing is that a perceived, unified field, is still a distinction. All perceivables are. All appearances are.
That's making Oneness conditional upon an absence of thought about/focus upon thing/objects. Realizing Oneness is not dependent upon the cessation of focus upon distinctions, rather, realizing Oneness is dependent upon seeing through imaginary, fundamental separation.
One that's seen through, distinct object, distinctly appearing things are not a problem. They are now seen as "empty appearance only," having no independent, inherent existence of their own.
ZD is placing the onus of seeing through upon appearances disappearing, rather than upon the erroneous belief in separation, disappearing.
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Post by Figgles on Aug 13, 2021 19:34:59 GMT
Distinctly appearing objects/things do not equal separate objects/things.
Seeing through separation does not mean that objects/things disappear. What disappears is the erroneous mistaking of them for each having inherent, independent existence of their own, (vs. being empty appearance, not separate from the abiding ground from which they arise.)
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Post by Figgles on Aug 14, 2021 16:31:30 GMT
In awakening, it's true, the dream-scape and everything in it, all things, objects, "as an entirety" are realized as non-separate arising within/to the abiding ground.....all One thingless thing, but that seeing/realization, although primary/fundamental to all other seeings/knowings, co-abides alongside the identification of appearing singular/distinct object/things.
The distinctly appearing shoe does not need to disappear from recognization as a shoe, to ALSO, simultaneously (primarily!) be seen/known it as "THIS."
Again, distinction need not disappear for the greater Truth of Oneness to reign primary.
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