Inavalan
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 1,608
|
Post by Inavalan on Oct 1, 2021 23:19:03 GMT
I guess I had an expectation running that ‘Tolle’ was self-realized and then an expectation of how he should present this knowing. Same expectation around Spira not choosing a vaccine only event. We put these teachers on pedalstalls but that’s our ‘stuff’. They are just expressing as who they are. Agreed. And by 'our stuff,' that does not necessarily mean something that's problematic or that has to go....our expectations about the behaviors of supposed awakened folks, also just expressions associated with the character. I must admit, I DO have a strong expectation that someone who is SR, is also going to be wide-awake to the consensus trance....and of course, I have all sorts of ideas as to what that means in terms of beliefs & behaviors on their part.  So long as there's some wiggle room for 'aberrations' in our story, for exceptions to the rule, (to ALL apparent rules!) no problemo. The way I see it, there is no way to confirm that those supposed awakened folks are so, besides that the term awaken is whatever everybody believes to be. Consensus trance ... This is another term that people make of it whatever they believe to be. Most people assume that what I perceive must be quite similar to what you perceive. As far as I know, it isn't so. There is no single consensus reality, there is no objective reality that participants consciously observe. |
|
|
|
Post by Figgles on Oct 1, 2021 23:32:28 GMT
Agreed. And by 'our stuff,' that does not necessarily mean something that's problematic or that has to go....our expectations about the behaviors of supposed awakened folks, also just expressions associated with the character. I must admit, I DO have a strong expectation that someone who is SR, is also going to be wide-awake to the consensus trance....and of course, I have all sorts of ideas as to what that means in terms of beliefs & behaviors on their part. So long as there's some wiggle room for 'aberrations' in our story, for exceptions to the rule, (to ALL apparent rules!) no problemo. The way I see it, there is no way to confirm that those supposed awakened folks are so, besides that the term awaken is whatever everybody believes to be. Consensus trance ... This is another term that people make of it whatever they believe to be. Most people assume that what I perceive must be quite similar to what you perceive. As far as I know, it isn't so. There is no single consensus reality, there is no objective reality that participants consciously observe. Agreed. No way to confirm that an appearance is something more than an appearance!....'awakened folks' appearing in the dream, included. What I mean by "consensus trance," is the status-quo, popular, widely accepted beliefs about such things as media, politics, medicine, world organizations, that are now being debunked. Waking up to the consensus trance is not the same as waking up to the dream. One can be awake to consensus trance and still be fast asleep, still seeing through the imagined eyes of an SVP. But sure, there's an apparent assumption in most that we're all seeing/experiencing a similar world. The fact that that other people's experience/seeing is only "apparent" means that ultimately, it never moves beyond being an appearance in the dream, empty at that. The idea of an objective reality...a common, independently existent world that all other appearing characters experience, gets seen through when separation gets seen through. That said, the experience of a world of things, including appearing characters who apparently experience, continues on after that realization. What goes is the the idea that appearing world "exists objectively," or that there is any-thing/any-one "who/that" Is experiencing/perceiving it. Perception/experience happen absent "a" perceiver....absent "an" experiencer. There is simply--perception...simply--experience....all ultimately happening to no one. |
|
Inavalan
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 1,608
|
Post by Inavalan on Oct 2, 2021 0:58:15 GMT
The way I see it, there is no way to confirm that those supposed awakened folks are so, besides that the term awaken is whatever everybody believes to be. Consensus trance ... This is another term that people make of it whatever they believe to be. Most people assume that what I perceive must be quite similar to what you perceive. As far as I know, it isn't so. There is no single consensus reality, there is no objective reality that participants consciously observe. Agreed. No way to confirm that an appearance is something more than an appearance!....'awakened folks' appearing in the dream, included. What I mean by "consensus trance," is the status-quo, popular, widely accepted beliefs about such things as media, politics, medicine, world organizations, that are now being debunked. Waking up to the consensus trance is not the same as waking up to the dream. One can be awake to consensus trance and still be fast asleep, still seeing through the imagined eyes of an SVP. But sure, there's an apparent assumption in most that we're all seeing/experiencing a similar world. The fact that that other people's experience/seeing is only "apparent" means that ultimately, it never moves beyond being an appearance in the dream, empty at that. The idea of an objective reality...a common, independently existent world that all other appearing characters experience, gets seen through when separation gets seen through. That said, the experience of a world of things, including appearing characters who apparently experience, continues on after that realization. What goes is the the idea that appearing world "exists objectively," or that there is any-thing/any-one "who/that" Is experiencing/perceiving it. Perception/experience happen absent "a" perceiver....absent "an" experiencer. There is simply--perception...simply--experience....all ultimately happening to no one. Didn't follow your explanation. It is way distorted from what I know to be.  |
|
amoeba
Junior Member
Posts: 72
|
Post by amoeba on Oct 2, 2021 4:48:16 GMT
There be Realization of ones physical body
as well as Realisation of ones mental-faculty,the two not connected. NOT being a follower of the writer mentioned,my speculation be that he may have read science-papers which say something like, 'We all have many types of cells, they each being allotted a different purpose,' he then adopting this idea with regards to our bodies Memory-Cells that he could earn him a buck from, he suffering depression. "Realization" references a seeing through that renders both of those (physical body, mental-faculty) as arisings within the dream...appearance only. So in that sense, the 'pain body' Tolle speaks of, is, at best, an appearance only, at worst, an erroneous imagining/illusion. The physical body in my life spins and leaps and grooves for very long periods of time when engorged in the arising Life issuing-out when Live Music is played. I Am not a Tolle fan.
|
|
Esponja
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 1,742
|
Post by Esponja on Oct 3, 2021 2:03:05 GMT
I guess I had an expectation running that ‘Tolle’ was self-realized and then an expectation of how he should present this knowing. Same expectation around Spira not choosing a vaccine only event. We put these teachers on pedalstalls but that’s our ‘stuff’. They are just expressing as who they are. Agreed. And by 'our stuff,' that does not necessarily mean something that's problematic or that has to go....our expectations about the behaviors of supposed awakened folks, also just expressions associated with the character. I must admit, I DO have a strong expectation that someone who is SR, is also going to be wide-awake to the consensus trance....and of course, I have all sorts of ideas as to what that means in terms of beliefs & behaviors on their part. So long as there's some wiggle room for 'aberrations' in our story, for exceptions to the rule, (to ALL apparent rules!) no problemo. Yes, just awareness of what it is. The individual thought creating the story of should. Leave it all, unaltered, unmodified, unchanged (S.Bob). |
|
Esponja
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 1,742
|
Post by Esponja on Oct 3, 2021 2:07:46 GMT
Agreed. No way to confirm that an appearance is something more than an appearance!....'awakened folks' appearing in the dream, included. What I mean by "consensus trance," is the status-quo, popular, widely accepted beliefs about such things as media, politics, medicine, world organizations, that are now being debunked. Waking up to the consensus trance is not the same as waking up to the dream. One can be awake to consensus trance and still be fast asleep, still seeing through the imagined eyes of an SVP. But sure, there's an apparent assumption in most that we're all seeing/experiencing a similar world. The fact that that other people's experience/seeing is only "apparent" means that ultimately, it never moves beyond being an appearance in the dream, empty at that. The idea of an objective reality...a common, independently existent world that all other appearing characters experience, gets seen through when separation gets seen through. That said, the experience of a world of things, including appearing characters who apparently experience, continues on after that realization. What goes is the the idea that appearing world "exists objectively," or that there is any-thing/any-one "who/that" Is experiencing/perceiving it. Perception/experience happen absent "a" perceiver....absent "an" experiencer. There is simply--perception...simply--experience....all ultimately happening to no one. Didn't follow your explanation. It is way distorted from what I know to be. There’s no ‘I’. You can’t find it. Just life living. Thinking, feeling, experienc-ing. It’s incredibly simple, yet wasn’t realized here for over 10 years🤣🤷🏻♀️ In the illusion of time. |
|
Esponja
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 1,742
|
Post by Esponja on Oct 3, 2021 2:10:20 GMT
The way I see it, there is no way to confirm that those supposed awakened folks are so, besides that the term awaken is whatever everybody believes to be. Consensus trance ... This is another term that people make of it whatever they believe to be. Most people assume that what I perceive must be quite similar to what you perceive. As far as I know, it isn't so. There is no single consensus reality, there is no objective reality that participants consciously observe. Agreed. No way to confirm that an appearance is something more than an appearance!....'awakened folks' appearing in the dream, included. What I mean by "consensus trance," is the status-quo, popular, widely accepted beliefs about such things as media, politics, medicine, world organizations, that are now being debunked. Waking up to the consensus trance is not the same as waking up to the dream. One can be awake to consensus trance and still be fast asleep, still seeing through the imagined eyes of an SVP. But sure, there's an apparent assumption in most that we're all seeing/experiencing a similar world. The fact that that other people's experience/seeing is only "apparent" means that ultimately, it never moves beyond being an appearance in the dream, empty at that. The idea of an objective reality...a common, independently existent world that all other appearing characters experience, gets seen through when separation gets seen through. That said, the experience of a world of things, including appearing characters who apparently experience, continues on after that realization. What goes is the the idea that appearing world "exists objectively," or that there is any-thing/any-one "who/that" Is experiencing/perceiving it. Perception/experience happen absent "a" perceiver....absent "an" experiencer. There is simply--perception...simply--experience....all ultimately happening to no one. Yes. We have some consistency in beliefs similar to how the world appears to be the same when we wake up in the morning. An amazing illusion. |
|
Esponja
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 1,742
|
Post by Esponja on Oct 3, 2021 2:23:59 GMT
Agreed. No way to confirm that an appearance is something more than an appearance!....'awakened folks' appearing in the dream, included. What I mean by "consensus trance," is the status-quo, popular, widely accepted beliefs about such things as media, politics, medicine, world organizations, that are now being debunked. Waking up to the consensus trance is not the same as waking up to the dream. One can be awake to consensus trance and still be fast asleep, still seeing through the imagined eyes of an SVP. But sure, there's an apparent assumption in most that we're all seeing/experiencing a similar world. The fact that that other people's experience/seeing is only "apparent" means that ultimately, it never moves beyond being an appearance in the dream, empty at that. The idea of an objective reality...a common, independently existent world that all other appearing characters experience, gets seen through when separation gets seen through. That said, the experience of a world of things, including appearing characters who apparently experience, continues on after that realization. What goes is the the idea that appearing world "exists objectively," or that there is any-thing/any-one "who/that" Is experiencing/perceiving it. Perception/experience happen absent "a" perceiver....absent "an" experiencer. There is simply--perception...simply--experience....all ultimately happening to no one. Yes. We have some consistency in beliefs similar to how the world appears to be the same when we wake up in the morning. An amazing illusion. Thinking about Spira, maybe he acted spontaneously. His body mind is doing what’s right for him. We layer judgment on him or the situation but it’s really just energy. |
|
Inavalan
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 1,608
|
Post by Inavalan on Oct 3, 2021 2:48:16 GMT
Didn't follow your explanation. It is way distorted from what I know to be. There’s no ‘I’. You can’t find it. Just life living. Thinking, feeling, experienc-ing. It’s incredibly simple, yet wasn’t realized here for over 10 years🤣🤷🏻♀️ In the illusion of time. I differ on this, and for all it can be said, my realization isn't a lesser realization than that of any guru's. I understand that you believe that way, and don't intend to argue, because it wouldn't lead anywhere, like the "pandemic" related arguments. Just to highlight how differently I see things vs. what you stated in your short post ... I disagree with every single statement you made there. This is why I wrote in another reply to you that there is a need for a novel spirituality that isn't based on faith, neither on what others peddle, nor on what one himself experiences, but on something provable to a huge number of people; call it "miracles". We can't trust our senses, neither physical nor non-physical. Self-delusion is impossible to detect. |
|
Esponja
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 1,742
|
Post by Esponja on Oct 3, 2021 3:23:13 GMT
There’s no ‘I’. You can’t find it. Just life living. Thinking, feeling, experienc-ing. It’s incredibly simple, yet wasn’t realized here for over 10 years🤣🤷🏻♀️ In the illusion of time. I differ on this, and for all it can be said, my realization isn't a lesser realization than that of any guru's. I understand that you believe that way, and don't intend to argue, because it wouldn't lead anywhere, like the "pandemic" related arguments. Just to highlight how differently I see things vs. what you stated in your short post ... I disagree with every single statement you made there. This is why I wrote in another reply to you that [font color="#ad19e6"]there is a need for a novel spirituality that isn't based on faith [/font], neither on what others peddle, nor on what one himself experiences, but on something provable to a huge number of people; call it "miracles". We can't trust our senses, neither physical nor non-physical. Self-delusion is impossible to detect. [/quote] Cool, thanks for explaining. |
|
