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Post by someNothing on Nov 18, 2020 13:26:06 GMT
https://spiritualgab.freeforums.net/post/61209/threadI used to tinker with this model (Spiral Dynamics) meant as a map of developmental potential, saaay in values, world views, consciousness, etc. It was pretty helpful in breaking up the thought patterns as I dealt with culture shock in different countries and contexts and with diverse people. I have not listened to everything this guy says about it all or anything, but he seems to do a pretty decent job of introducing the general ideas and concepts. The characteristics I brought up were put together by another person, but based on Spiral Dynamics. There is quite a bit of literature out there, if you're interested in pursuing. Here's the Wiki page .
Just thought I'd leave this in a new thread if folks are interested. Seems it might help to navigate some of the noise and bring some of the issues into, imo, better focus.
I see that his Youtube page has the individual levels broken down under a Spiral Dynamics playlist, and he does a good job of presenting them. If nothing else, it might give some new perspectives.
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Post by Figgles on Nov 18, 2020 17:59:41 GMT
https://spiritualgab.freeforums.net/post/61209/threadI used to tinker with this model (Spiral Dynamics) meant as a map of developmental potential, saaay in values, world views, consciousness, etc. It was pretty helpful in breaking up the thought patterns as I dealt with culture shock in different countries and contexts and with diverse people. I have not listened to everything this guy says about it all or anything, but he seems to do a pretty decent job of introducing the general ideas and concepts. The characteristics I brought up were put together by another person, but based on Spiral Dynamics. There is quite a bit of literature out there, if you're interested in pursuing. Here's the Wiki page . Just thought I'd leave this in a new thread if folks are interested. Seems it might help to navigate some of the noise and bring some of the issues into, imo, better focus.
I see that his Youtube page has the individual levels broken down under a Spiral Dynamics playlist, and he does a good job of presenting them. If nothing else, it might give some new perspectives.
Good stuff. I only had time to listen to a few minutes, but I will definitely be coming back to watch the whole thing when I have time. Thanks for posting. (I might even add it to my blog!) |
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Post by Figgles on Nov 19, 2020 15:52:33 GMT
Cool stuff. He says early on though and he is so right, that in looking at a particular person or situation, various paradigms can intertwine, something that imo, he seemed to overlook when he just flat-out designated Donald Trump to be in one of the lowest.
There's a very different view when looking beyond the obvious with Trump...when you look to the 'avenue' vs. the character. I say despite what many may think, in terms of the most operative paradigm, that 'avenue' is actually much higher on the spiral than the Biden avenue.
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Post by someNothing on Nov 19, 2020 17:12:42 GMT
Cool stuff. He says early on though and he is so right, that in looking at a particular person or situation, various paradigms can intertwine, something that imo, he seemed to overlook when he just flat-out designated Donald Trump to be in one of the lowest. There's a very different view when looking beyond the obvious with Trump...when you look to the 'avenue' vs. the character. I say despite what many may think, in terms of the most operative paradigm, that 'avenue' is actually much higher on the spiral than the Biden avenue. Yes, it's better to spread out and perceive the bigger context that one is willing to try to boil down to a linear expression of thought/action. If you want to peg the speaker's overall interpretation of the admittedly larger dynamic known as Trump to one sentence or two, you're perfectly obliged to do so. I think he's broader minded than that. But, sure, Trump does have his moments of health like anyone else, which is the idea behind a bell curve and probabilities.
I've done my fair share of the "avenue" train of thought. You might be thinking about potentials of what the long-term outcome might be and how they align to your values and perceived outcomes. I tend to think of that as predicting, and of course we all do it to an extent and there's nothing wrong with that. I tend to sense closer to the different peeps involved, what cards have been shown, what values might promote the general patterns of behavior, and the overall arch of the endeavors undertaken. I know everyone will make mistakes, which is why I do promote greater democratic principles in groups, governance, and the like.
I couldn't vote for Clinton or Trump, and I still can't vote for Trump. I think four more years like this last four years will not turn out well, and may even tip the balance. I know I'm rolling the dice based on my perceptions, which can change, but I'm willing to take the chances knowing the last four years have really turned on an investigative curiosity in the general public. Too much police state shit goes on, and people gonna get crazy, and that's fine.
As for voting, again, when I come to a fork in the road, I take it (yes, it's Yogi Berra's). I don't get too attached to it or being right.
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Post by someNothing on Nov 20, 2020 19:52:46 GMT
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Post by someNothing on Nov 23, 2020 17:41:48 GMT
Couple notes bubbled up in me head...
It might be noted that anyone at any level can have what is called a peak/woowoo experience which, as we've discussed, is different than abiding nondual awareness. In a way, once consciousness touches mind and we enter the flow of/as Consciousness and are aware as such, we're stepping into the dream. As that dream character, there are all sorts of conscious and unconscious patterns that have taken form. The bell-curve observation of values, characteristics, etc that SD tends to try to "categorize" into the levels/colors can be more akin to seeing what one's/other's/group's present state of mind is in, look around, and see how/why that might be and see what possibilities potentially exist for the interpersonal and intrapersonal interaction.
The levels move between "I" and "We" centeredness, and the overall idea is of transcend and include, and remain more conscious of. The lower tier colors are generally considered divisive and/or more judgmental based on its values. And then, with a certain experiential/consciousness expanding thrust (such as in an awakening, a drug induced experience, or whatever), 2nd tier potentials are brought into greater awareness. It is often noticed that folks up or down the first tier colors have difficulty relating to or valuing those at another. And, it can also be seen that certain peeps notice that peeps relating from 2nd tier are more aware of the pros-and-cons of each level, as long as they are healthy. Or, it can also be noticed that certain levels must be spoken to in a certain way, or the communication may be futile. Anyway, the idea is not to peg people, but to just be more conscious of potential qualities of mind, 'self' aware. But, to be clear, it is mind stuff, and is like the mask(s) of personae one might wear and/or act through in the dream.
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Post by someNothing on Nov 25, 2020 12:30:49 GMT
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Post by Figgles on Nov 27, 2020 1:56:02 GMT
From where I stand, with his seemingly carved in stone political views that don't differ at all from the mainstream....A very 'biased' gentleman who doesn't seem too aware that he actually is.  www.integratedsociopsychology.net/2020/red-thinking-is-not-up-to-21st-century-crisis-leadership/The bolded for one, is an extremely myopic and simplistic explanation. Even back when I was anti-Trump, Although I still wasn't clearly seeing the whole pic, I could see there was a real movement for those who favored him, towards something entirely different than the 'politicians' they'd come to know and expect. |
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Post by someNothing on Nov 27, 2020 13:25:09 GMT
From where I stand, with his seemingly carved in stone political views that don't differ at all from the mainstream....A very 'biased' gentleman who doesn't seem too aware that he actually is. www.integratedsociopsychology.net/2020/red-thinking-is-not-up-to-21st-century-crisis-leadership/The bolded for one, is an extremely myopic and simplistic explanation. Even back when I was anti-Trump, Although I still wasn't clearly seeing the whole pic, I could see there was a real movement for those who favored him, towards something entirely different than the 'politicians' they'd come to know and expect. I have not read the book much, and probably don't agree with his take on the political animal known as DT either. The intent of sharing the link... it's just a free book (so, "classy" in that he is publicly sharing a book instead of having folks pay for it) that might give one a window for seeing how the model can be used for organizing thoughts on the complex topic of culture, values, and world views, and then re-thinking. I'm glad you could find something that fit your balanced unbiased narrative. 
You go, girl! Lead us to the truth of the politico-social reality! I'll remain faithful that you will paint and find what you are looking for! You're that good. |
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Post by Figgles on Nov 27, 2020 20:57:47 GMT
From where I stand, with his seemingly carved in stone political views that don't differ at all from the mainstream....A very 'biased' gentleman who doesn't seem too aware that he actually is. www.integratedsociopsychology.net/2020/red-thinking-is-not-up-to-21st-century-crisis-leadership/The bolded for one, is an extremely myopic and simplistic explanation. Even back when I was anti-Trump, Although I still wasn't clearly seeing the whole pic, I could see there was a real movement for those who favored him, towards something entirely different than the 'politicians' they'd come to know and expect. I have not read the book much, and probably don't agree with his take on the political animal known as DT either. The intent of sharing the link... it's just a free book (so, "classy" in that he is publicly sharing a book instead of having folks pay for it) that might give one a window for seeing how the model can be used for organizing thoughts on the complex topic of culture, values, and world views, and then re-thinking. I'm glad you could find something that fit your balanced unbiased narrative. You go, girl! Lead us to the truth of the politico-social reality! I'll remain faithful that you will paint and find what you are looking for! You're that good. My point is, the model clearly can also be used for re-affirming and giving weight to personal judgements, by that very fact of organizing and assigning a 'level' to them. Those folks whom we judge harshly and are very sure about as operating purely through their egos, get organized and assigned to a lowly level....that assignation doesn't actually change anything, if anything it serves as an anchoring in of position. The model works great if one is seeing past all his/her blind spots. If not...it's a re-affirmation of those. And re: the 2nd bolded bit...I'm not sure at what point this turned from what was a really good, non-contentious, non-personal discussion/debate into this kind of thing. Was it something specific I said..or something more general? |
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