muttley
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 4,394
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Post by muttley on Nov 10, 2020 13:29:22 GMT
My feelings have not been mixed. I watched for 23 years, unbeknownst to me until the last five years, how a narcissist eats away at the very fabric of any potential for 'betterment'. My brother was married to one, and they had two children (two whole other stories). They are still grappling with very insecure world views due to the fabric from which they're bound to derive their sense of self from. Now, how that will translate in their future, sure, I don't know. Maybe something great becomes of it all. Life's big.
While I agree about the justice needing to be done, and the needs to minimize inflicting/controlling on an international scale, most if not every action he has made has been to serve one thing only. I don't do social media either, and I wouldn't say I judge, per se. In my opinion, there is no 'who' about it. It's completely unconscious and, as such, is mostly very low level human capacities giving voice and legitimacy to other dream characters of the same ilk. I believe Trump, for the most part, empowers hate, fear, and baseline wants and desires. For many, that's exactly what they want to hear.
To be clear, I think that to be involved in politics requires a certain kind of character, so maybe that's just how it goes. And yes, power corrupts. If you go to Capitol Hill to work, you better take on some animalistic traits in order to survive. But, equally, there are those who are able to balance those necessities out with a bit of higher-minded potentials. DT is nowhere near capable of any of that; it's all ego, all the time. I wish for him what I do for anyone.... to wake up. For DT, it is to wake from the relative nightmare that is being projected into the world.
yep I totally see your point here, and I found it well articulated. This is one of those slightly odd situations in which even though I totally see your point, it doesn't affect my sense of things. Sometimes things can be hashed out and a change of view can happen as a result of that....a new perspective arises....but Trump discussions often seem to defy that! On another hand, I have been a fan of AOC for a long time, and have always liked Sanders (though at this point I find that he bows to the interest of the DNC far more than I'm comfortable with). My politics is not cohesive and I don't fit into an easy box. My positive sense of Trump requires me to almost totally tune out everything he says lol. When I tune into Trump's energy (beyond all his noise), I get a sense of 'something' I can relate to. When I tune into Biden, I don't get a negative sense, I just get a 'nothingness'...a 'blankness', like there's nothing really there...like he's nothing much more than a 'puppet' or 'figurehead' for others.. Again, that's all just intuitive, I really don't expect it to be respected as such, and in one way I'm really just talking for the sake of talking (I can't really talk to friends in the way that I spoke there...it's too 'spiritual' sounding). Absent the racial rhetoric Bernie and AOC sometimes say things that could have been said by Libertarian's or Pat Buchanan. The disagreement is about methodology, which leads to different alignment. Perhaps that changes in the course of the ongoing chaos, but she's about as flawed a character as they come. Did you read her "syncophant" tweet? |
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muttley
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 4,394
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Post by muttley on Nov 10, 2020 13:56:50 GMT
Maybe the underlying argument is that only 3/5's of the urban vote should be counted  Now, that's a clever meme right there.  Meme's don't work unless they can hook an emotion. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2020 14:26:11 GMT
Maybe the underlying argument is that only 3/5's of the urban vote should be counted Now, that's a clever meme right there. Meme's don't work unless they can hook an emotion. yep, threats and prognostications of drugs and crime and violence and hatred of the police and falling home prices is a powerful hook that drives peeps to the polls |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2020 14:43:24 GMT
Maybe the underlying argument is that only 3/5's of the urban vote should be counted Their fear is they do not think they can learn, relate to, and/or keep up with the changing demographics. They must use all means necessary to control what they cannot relate to. Plus, closer to their base desires and identity, politicians do not want to lose their jobs. The facade must be maintained until other means are created/perceived.
Well Trump has blurred the lines of normality so grotesquely that it's difficult to assess the damage or long term consequences. so yeah... popcorn. And one need look no farther than Lindsey Graham to see what contortions are necessary to stay in the fickle good graces of the mob. |
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Andrew
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 8,340
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Post by Andrew on Nov 10, 2020 15:53:49 GMT
yep I totally see your point here, and I found it well articulated. This is one of those slightly odd situations in which even though I totally see your point, it doesn't affect my sense of things. Sometimes things can be hashed out and a change of view can happen as a result of that....a new perspective arises....but Trump discussions often seem to defy that! On another hand, I have been a fan of AOC for a long time, and have always liked Sanders (though at this point I find that he bows to the interest of the DNC far more than I'm comfortable with). My politics is not cohesive and I don't fit into an easy box. My positive sense of Trump requires me to almost totally tune out everything he says lol. When I tune into Trump's energy (beyond all his noise), I get a sense of 'something' I can relate to. When I tune into Biden, I don't get a negative sense, I just get a 'nothingness'...a 'blankness', like there's nothing really there...like he's nothing much more than a 'puppet' or 'figurehead' for others.. Again, that's all just intuitive, I really don't expect it to be respected as such, and in one way I'm really just talking for the sake of talking (I can't really talk to friends in the way that I spoke there...it's too 'spiritual' sounding). Absent the racial rhetoric Bernie and AOC sometimes say things that could have been said by Libertarian's or Pat Buchanan. The disagreement is about methodology, which leads to different alignment. Perhaps that changes in the course of the ongoing chaos, but she's about as flawed a character as they come. Did you read her "syncophant" tweet? yeah can well believe she has flaws, but I didn't see that tweet...? Can you say more about the disagreement in methodology? I really don't like putting a label or a box around my politics, as I think all ideologies/models are doomed to failure, but 'social libertarianism' is an actual movement that quite closely resembles my ideas. I believe Noam Chomsky was an advocate. I'm sketchy on the details. 'Compassionate anarchism' is another model that I can relate to. |
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Andrew
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 8,340
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Post by Andrew on Nov 10, 2020 16:04:37 GMT
Their fear is they do not think they can learn, relate to, and/or keep up with the changing demographics. They must use all means necessary to control what they cannot relate to. Plus, closer to their base desires and identity, politicians do not want to lose their jobs. The facade must be maintained until other means are created/perceived.
Well Trump has blurred the lines of normality so grotesquely that it's difficult to assess the damage or long term consequences. so yeah... popcorn. And one need look no farther than Lindsey Graham to see what contortions are necessary to stay in the fickle good graces of the mob. I notice amongst my friends that were particularly celebratory at the media's announcement of Biden's victory (and were pretty excited by the potential of Trump dying!), that what they really really want is a sense of 'normality'. It's understandable, I can find a scrap of that in me too. The last few years have been super noisy, conflicting, and turbulent. But, I'm really not sure that what was 'normal' was that good. I think... at best, all that noise, conflict and turbulence was being successfully buried or subdued i.e a semi-functional facade. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2020 16:24:31 GMT
Well Trump has blurred the lines of normality so grotesquely that it's difficult to assess the damage or long term consequences. so yeah... popcorn. And one need look no farther than Lindsey Graham to see what contortions are necessary to stay in the fickle good graces of the mob. I notice amongst my friends that were particularly celebratory at the media's announcement of Biden's victory (and were pretty excited by the potential of Trump dying!), that what they really really want is a sense of 'normality'. It's understandable, I can find a scrap of that in me too. The last few years have been super noisy, conflicting, and turbulent. But, I'm really not sure that what was 'normal' was that good. I think... at best, all that noise, conflict and turbulence was being successfully buried or subdued i.e a semi-functional facade. yeah, there isn't an agreed upon definition of what normal is, and that's fine, the whole thing is a work in progress... but I think there's only one reality - like it or not |
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Post by someNothing on Nov 10, 2020 17:20:44 GMT
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Post by someNothing on Nov 10, 2020 19:20:21 GMT
Flying monkeys screeching lawyerese for the serially delusional.... oh dear.  And on and on it goes.... oh well, better get some popcorn. 🍿
"I'm here to earn my wings, so ring up the next round Nick!" Hey, I understand why you don't like this Trump character, I really do.  This scene in the movie is some high drama. "American political instability" is a rather ominous phrase. The stage direction for this particular character always included a heavy dose of cynicism, even to the point of contempt for anyone in power. And that means anyone. In any sort of power. Anywhere. So, the script has me cheering the populist rhetoric.  But, hey, I get it, the guy is what he is. No doubt. I sincerely understand. That said, what's going on now is happening very fast. It will only be a matter of months, if not weeks, before Trump, the persona is completely irrelevant, but the underlying conflict will remain unresolved. I think the best any one individual can ever do is to remain as acutely aware of their tendency toward confirmation bias as they possibly can. Aaah, so you got caught up in the "populist" movement for an elitist who thinks he's more elite and powerful than anyone the world has ever seen. Classic flying monkey move!
And, no, it's not just about the guy himself, or even the core of his message which changes depending on the degree of fear he perceives. Perhaps you underestimate the degree to which fear intoxicates the fear-ridden of both political parties, as well as the scorched earth battle that is intended in pursuit of rectifying the "wrongs" of both sides. The toxicity is now mainstream and serves no intention but the imagined beholders'. Drink up! |
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Post by someNothing on Nov 10, 2020 19:29:18 GMT
My feelings have not been mixed. I watched for 23 years, unbeknownst to me until the last five years, how a narcissist eats away at the very fabric of any potential for 'betterment'. My brother was married to one, and they had two children (two whole other stories). They are still grappling with very insecure world views due to the fabric from which they're bound to derive their sense of self from. Now, how that will translate in their future, sure, I don't know. Maybe something great becomes of it all. Life's big.
While I agree about the justice needing to be done, and the needs to minimize inflicting/controlling on an international scale, most if not every action he has made has been to serve one thing only. I don't do social media either, and I wouldn't say I judge, per se. In my opinion, there is no 'who' about it. It's completely unconscious and, as such, is mostly very low level human capacities giving voice and legitimacy to other dream characters of the same ilk. I believe Trump, for the most part, empowers hate, fear, and baseline wants and desires. For many, that's exactly what they want to hear.
To be clear, I think that to be involved in politics requires a certain kind of character, so maybe that's just how it goes. And yes, power corrupts. If you go to Capitol Hill to work, you better take on some animalistic traits in order to survive. But, equally, there are those who are able to balance those necessities out with a bit of higher-minded potentials. DT is nowhere near capable of any of that; it's all ego, all the time. I wish for him what I do for anyone.... to wake up. For DT, it is to wake from the relative nightmare that is being projected into the world.
That's precisely what I mean by that Trump is a symptom and not a cause. W', Billy, and Obama were (to varying degrees) better at presenting a facade, and, where ultimately, to a major extent, only figureheads anyway. It's magic illusion 101: "look here, not over there".
So, as we rapidly approach a point where the option of neutrality is fading, and our sources of information become more and more muddled and confused, I'm inclined and biased toward the bit of wisdom oft repeated during Watergate: "follow the money".
Agree to some extent. If he were a child, I'd have more to offer in agreement. But, he is a man-child and, as such, he is a symptom of his upbringing and the culture that has enabled such forms of wielding power, but also to be held responsible. I have no problem rejecting him outright until he exhibited a modicum of adulthood. I have no need for people in positions of leadership who live in/from utter fear. |
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Meme's don't work unless they can hook an emotion.
