What Does "Not Separate/Oneness" reference?

It's important not to get hung up on labels; Nonduality, Self Realization, Advaita, Neo-Advaita, Awakening, Enlightenment, Liberation, Freedom...all of these terms get used interchangeably as folks try to talk about/describe the shift from seeing through eyes of an imaginary, separately existent entity to beyond/prior to (ground of Awareness).

I had a look at the site Reefs posted,
"The Neo-Advaita Recovery Zone"

www.neo-advaita.org/

Oh my.

Sounds as though someone got burned bad as he gobbled up pointers...or, it's entirely possible he bought into the teachings of a brown-bear and suffered due to adopting an erroneous and purely conceptual belief system that he mistook for Self Realization/Awakening.

Shitty Nonduality teachers are out there for sure. The most important thing I can say to that is, don't EVER rely upon the understandings of another for your own Absolute knowing.

Thing is, it's entirely possible to wake-up without any discussion about it....without any books, any teachers....absent a "guru."

Waking up/SR is not something that requires "learning." It really is a seeing through/unlearning, if we must invoke that terminlogy at all.

Being awake really is all about "where" you are looking from. It's that "beyond/prior to" place/non-place of seeing that unveils and unobscures.....reading, meditation, engaging in this or that practice in the world is really just a distraction from "simply looking/noting" what's actually the case.

Where there is true and genuine sincerity to know what is actually so vs. what is being erroneously imagined, that single step of simply becoming silent and "looking" at what IS here, imminent, NOW, waiting to be seen, will happen, without a hitch. If it's not happening that way, there's some luggage that needs sorting through...that's where self-inquiry comes in...time to get real honest..again though, that's not something the person "chooses." Honesty arises where there's an absence of a need to guard/protect by being dishonest.

Interesting. Nothing quite like "losing an apparent ability," to see that it was never actually, "volitional choosing" in the first place.

I would say that seeming 'ability' as a me character, to "choose where attention goes...to actively choose what to think about," is not actually the "last volition/personal freedom," but rather, the last, most sticky 'apparent volition' that gets seen through.

That seeming experience of 'choosing where focus goes,' is about as intimate as it gets...and the sense that there really is a "choice" happening there and that there is an "I" doing/making that choice, is about as compelling as it gets, in terms of an apparent "sense."

But "put that one too, out front," (as Steve used to say) and it's crystal clear--it merely seems as though I, as a person, am choosing....it's all experiential...all appearance only, and in actuality, that sense of being the director of thought, is simply part and parcel of the overall experience of the me character.

As far as illusions go though, that is indeed a tough one to shake, unless and until the entirety of the imagined SVP dissolves/is seen through.




There is nothing quite like having direct, experiential reference for 'utter and complete, futility.'



Really well said, Andrew. I wonder the same about SDP...and Tenka....JLY too, as he often reacts badly to pointers to emptiness.

Waking up means seeing that you never ever actually were/are, "living through" that which was erroneous imagined to be. You don't grasp this because at this juncture, you are merely imagining what it's like to "see through the illusion of (s)elf." Your imagining of that, is erroneous....it's missing the mark....you have not apprehended (S)elf, thus, you're still seeing through the eyes of an imagined separate person. You have no reference yet for what "seeing through the illusion of separate self", means.



No. That "existence" that you attribute to the apparent "functioning entity," is the illusion! Regardless of how compelling an experience that sense of being an existent some-thing/some-one may be, ultimately, it's false and must be seen for what it is, if freedom is to be.



No, there is no choice involved. There is really nothing there that could, independently choose. If the SVP really HAS been seen through, then there's a default, natural shift to the primary locus of seeing, to beyond/prior to. There's groundedness in unwavering awareness, with the personal viewpoint, as secondary, couched within that.

It's all appearance only; The me character, whatever conditioning is involved that seemingly facilitates this "functioning" idea you are so enamored with....all appearance, empty of inherent existence. You cannot separate out what you are calling conditioning or functioning from the apparent me character.

You're still seeing through the eyes of an imagined, separate person, assuming you know what it's like to see from beyond. Nothing but realization will suffice when it comes to truly understanding that directly/imminently. It's not how you/as an SVP, thinks it is.



No. The nonduali view; You were never what you erroneously believed you were....that was merely an appearance arising within to primordial seeing/awareness.

And, abiding groundedness in that primordial awareness/seeing beyond/prior to, is devoid of identification with that as being a something/someone. It really is a non-conceptual "place/non-place" of seeing that is being referenced and not a "something/someone" that now sees from a position of beyond.

The position of seeing...the ground of awareness prevails now, where once there was identification with an imaginary separate, volitional someone/entity.



This "You" you reference there, that "embraces what's present and deems stuff okay, because it's illusory"? While Truth-talk might it sound like such an entity survives awakening, that is precisely what gets seen through....that intermediary that previously inserted itself into the fray.... imagined as an existent, volitional something.




Your ontology is all about "in the dream" waking up to the consensus trance...becoming more consciously aware of mind's machinations. All good....but relative, awakening to the consensus trance does not equal waking up to the dream.

It's not that being consciously aware, seeing clearly no longer is of interest in SR, it's that personal clarity is now secondary to the primary seeing that is beyond/prior to.

Fwiw, that view from beyond/prior to does have a way of illuminating mind's content, mainly because it's "beyond mind." The view is far better and more clear when you're not looking "at" something from an immersion within it.

No. The illusion "consists of," mistaking the apparent me character, along with all appearing 'things/conditions' as separate, existent in it's own right, vs. a temporal, ephemeral, transient appearance only.

The illusion of the SVP does not "consist of" conditioning....conditionings of the sort you are referencing, are facets of the SVP.

Again, you get this all wrong because you have no clear, direct, actual knowing of what it means to 'see through the illusion of self.'

There is an arrogance of sorts and stubborness surrounding your doggedness re: this. Are you willing at all to look at the possibility that your understanding of what SR/awakening is pointing to, is faulty?