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Post by Figgles on Nov 15, 2023 22:53:42 GMT
Actually, a continued "me character experience," post so called physical, bodily death, does not in any way defy Oneness. SR after all, does reveal that the body is not the source of Awareness, but rather, like ALL experiential content, including all of that which is associated with the 'me character,' it arises within/to Awareness...dependent upon it.
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Post by Figgles on Nov 27, 2023 19:28:56 GMT
"Dualism/Two," is a reference to "essence/fundamental/ground," and not to apparent distinction. Apparent distinction does not equal "dualism/two." That's the mistake that lies behind the imagined SVP and a separate world full of separate, inherently existent stuff.
Distinction DOES appear. That's how we get 'experience.' But distinction is NOT 'fundamental separation.'
Fundamental dualism never actually appears. It's erroneously assumed. That is the fundamental 'error' that Nonduality addresses and that SR dissolves.
It's fine that distinction appears....that does not to change or be seen through. What does need to be seen through for liberation to be, is the mistake of erroneously assuming 'fundamental separation.'
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Post by Figgles on Dec 3, 2023 19:36:22 GMT
An individual that "Does" have actual existence, is precisely what the term "SVP" is referencing.
To have inherent existence is to exist in it's own right as a volitional, causal/creative catalyst to "creation/manifestation." There is no such "thing"....the appearing "person" that seems to be volitionally causing/doing stuff, is itself, along with those doings and apparent "creations," all appearance only....arising dependently upon the abiding ground of awareness/existence.
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Post by Figgles on Dec 3, 2023 19:38:33 GMT
You're not listening/reading close enough. You keep applying your own spin to the pointers. That which lies beyond "mindful self" is not "experienced"....it is the ground to all experience. It's prior to mind....beyond concepts...beyond all arising experiential content.
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Post by Figgles on Dec 3, 2023 19:40:53 GMT
In Nonduality there is one basic realization/seeing through. Fundamentally, not-two. All other realizations/insights that follow from that are assimilations of that basic absence.
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Post by Figgles on Dec 4, 2023 15:23:04 GMT
Right...the up/down movements relates to experience....experiential content. If the conversation is about experience per se, and what remains, what goes in SR, the context then, necessarily, includes both perspectives. That's really what 'being awake' is...An abiding primary locus of seeing that supercedes the personal, but also that includes it.
There's no need or importance to deny the apparent, relative, experiential ups/downs...there is nothing there to 'see through,' as it's not those basic ups/downs that equal delusion....rather, it's the overlay of the SVP that heaps separation-based judgments upon that.
Yes! And that's what matters.
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Post by Figgles on Dec 10, 2023 19:48:13 GMT
You are misconstruing the absence of an existent, separate "self" with an absence of all self-reference. The personal self as an appearance, was never the problem...mistaking that for a some-thing that has separate, inherent existence in it's own right, is.
Post SR, there is still an apparent personal 'self,' it's just now no longer mistaken to be a separately existent, volitional entity that is the source of awareness....in SR, the personal self is clearly seen to be appearing within/to Awareness and not the other way around.
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Post by Figgles on Dec 12, 2023 21:54:10 GMT
Well put....& Sounds like you're pretty clear on that one...and yet, as far as I recall, you've never once challenged the assertions made by Reefs & ZD re: their Absolute, certain, "realized" knowings that there exists a unique, discrete perceiver/experiencer, in every appearing object/thing they encounter...be it a shoe, a paper-clip or a human. It's a shame, 'cause that particular pointer to Truth you're offering there is rather huge in the big scheme of Nonduality.
And, considering what you say above there, can you perhaps see now why I challenged and wanted to hear more about your absence of existential, Absolute knowledge re: multiple, unique perceivers, that you insisted was somehow 'lost/went away/dissolved'? For an absence of Absolute knowledge to dissolve, would necessarily mean the presence of knowledge was added...no?
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Post by Figgles on Dec 28, 2023 19:33:11 GMT
Nope, while really, there is no definitive "order/sequence" as the shift in locus of seeing takes care of all imagined separation, if anything, you've got it backwards. 2nd mountain position, seeing through the inherent existence of all that appears, dissolving identification with anything that appears, (not me) then give way to the "ultimate" (3rd mountain position/seeing) where there's full integration....all One (I am the ground and all that appears within/to it).
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Post by Figgles on Dec 28, 2023 19:47:46 GMT
To invoke JLY's metaphor...You're both talking about all the specifics of the ocean/beach with great authority and arrogance, from a position of never have actually visited an ocean/beach.
You guys consider SR nothing more than an "unnecessary sidetrack/bump in the road," because you have no direct reference for it.
I promise you, it is a profound shift in locus of seeing that completely re-frames all of those things that you both currently deem to be of the utmost of importance.
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