Enigma
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Post by Enigma on May 16, 2019 0:07:14 GMT
What we mean by mind is a process of thought, and that is demonstrably happening, so I see no need to question the validity of the concept. There is also the valid idea that nothing can transcend it's own functioning in order to understand how it's own functioning functions. So, there IS a mystery, but what I'm saying is that mind is limited, by it's function, to see what transcends that function as mysterious. The transcendent is not a mystery to the transcendent. It's only when mind is brought into the picture that mysteries show up. What would you say is not misconceived about existential questions? The transcendent was never the mystery to begin with. The non-transcendent was. But even that is wrong, of course. Whatever the mystery is, in any case, to the transcendent it is not a mystery nor is it NOT a mystery. What is not misconceived about existential questions is that they gesture to something that is neither immanent nor transcendental, that can neither be understood nor lived. It is the threshold between thing and not thing; it is not even an it; and it can neither be said to be known nor not known. It is certainly beyond our little human minds, supposedly Self-realized or not. Well, I agree, though gesturing in some odd direction never made the misconceived any less misconceived.
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muttley
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Post by muttley on May 16, 2019 0:40:23 GMT
Isn't it rather mysterious though, how sometimes, mind gets out of the way? You likely have an explanation as for why there's no convincing or tricking mind into standing down .. and yet sometimes the mind gets put to rest, and the questions subside. Is that, explicable? Welp, mind doesn't get out of the way of itself. If it did, we would rightly ask how mind became two in order to do that (a la E. T.). Instead, mind gets out of the way of the source of mind. Now it's a little more understandable how mind gets put to rest. Mind is then used as a tool that is either picked up, or not. Now the question becomes, Under what circumstances would the source of mind put mind down? What would make the source turn and walk off the battlefield, since that is indeed what happens? Yeah, I know why mind can't be tricked. The plan to trick (or any plan) is formed at the conscious level of mind, and the vast majority of mind's functioning is unconscious. Ego hides in the unconscious and watches the plans form, poking a stick in the spokes whenever necessary. This is why spiritual practices are doomed from the start. Ah, yes, of course, "mind gets out of the way" carries the potential implication of mind-as-mover, but you're right, that's not what I meant.
Regardless of how we describe those circumstances .. "sincerity", "surrender", "grace" or whatever, it seems to me that we haven't really dispelled the mystery. And, nothin' ever makes source do nuthin'.
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Enigma
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 13,969
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Post by Enigma on May 16, 2019 2:29:46 GMT
Welp, mind doesn't get out of the way of itself. If it did, we would rightly ask how mind became two in order to do that (a la E. T.). Instead, mind gets out of the way of the source of mind. Now it's a little more understandable how mind gets put to rest. Mind is then used as a tool that is either picked up, or not. Now the question becomes, Under what circumstances would the source of mind put mind down? What would make the source turn and walk off the battlefield, since that is indeed what happens? Yeah, I know why mind can't be tricked. The plan to trick (or any plan) is formed at the conscious level of mind, and the vast majority of mind's functioning is unconscious. Ego hides in the unconscious and watches the plans form, poking a stick in the spokes whenever necessary. This is why spiritual practices are doomed from the start. Ah, yes, of course, "mind gets out of the way" carries the potential implication of mind-as-mover, but you're right, that's not what I meant.
Regardless of how we describe those circumstances .. "sincerity", "surrender", "grace" or whatever, it seems to me that we haven't really dispelled the mystery. And, nothin' ever makes source do nuthin'. Perhaps not. You might remember me saying God can never be trapped within his own dream because if God wants to wake up, God wakes up. So, what would make God want to wake up? Wouldn't this be the catalyst of sincerity and surrender?
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Post by siftingtothetruth on May 16, 2019 3:23:44 GMT
The transcendent was never the mystery to begin with. The non-transcendent was. But even that is wrong, of course. Whatever the mystery is, in any case, to the transcendent it is not a mystery nor is it NOT a mystery. What is not misconceived about existential questions is that they gesture to something that is neither immanent nor transcendental, that can neither be understood nor lived. It is the threshold between thing and not thing; it is not even an it; and it can neither be said to be known nor not known. It is certainly beyond our little human minds, supposedly Self-realized or not. Well, I agree, though gesturing in some odd direction never made the misconceived any less misconceived. Perhaps we can say it’s misconceived but not misfelt.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2019 3:35:59 GMT
Isn't it rather mysterious though, how sometimes, mind gets out of the way? You likely have an explanation as for why there's no convincing or tricking mind into standing down .. and yet sometimes the mind gets put to rest, and the questions subside. Is that, explicable? Welp, mind doesn't get out of the way of itself. If it did, we would rightly ask how mind became two in order to do that (a la E. T.). Instead, mind gets out of the way of the source of mind. Now it's a little more understandable how mind gets put to rest. Mind is then used as a tool that is either picked up, or not. Now the question becomes, Under what circumstances would the source of mind put mind down? What would make the source turn and walk off the battlefield, since that is indeed what happens? Yeah, I know why mind can't be tricked. The plan to trick (or any plan) is formed at the conscious level of mind, and the vast majority of mind's functioning is unconscious. Ego hides in the unconscious and watches the plans form, poking a stick in the spokes whenever necessary. This is why spiritual practices are doomed from the start. That makes you a sloppylist nihilist.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2019 8:41:52 GMT
Ego hides in the unconscious and watches the plans form, poking a stick in the spokes whenever necessary. This is why spiritual practices are doomed from the start. You must have a deep yearning to attain the Truth. [...] To understand this you have to meditate.... You [must] follow meditation assiduously.... I insist you stabilize yourself by meditation. Your senses are very active; they are not under control. By meditating, that particular weakness of your mind will be brought under control.... Persistence. That deep longing must be there. [...] To understand what I am telling you it is imperative that you have recourse to meditation. Don't be carried away by concepts, just dwell in the quietude. [...] You must make up your mind what you want.... If the determination [for Freedom or Realization] is that great—then it must come, but if you want something in the material world, it is not possible. The true pupil keeps this in mind and meditates." —Nisargadatta Maharaj (Seeds of Consciousness)
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Enigma
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 13,969
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Post by Enigma on May 16, 2019 13:38:21 GMT
Well, I agree, though gesturing in some odd direction never made the misconceived any less misconceived. Perhaps we can say it’s misconceived but not misfelt. Perhaps we could. I've been considering saying something about how feeling is the language of God, but for now I'll just gesture wildly toward the shrubbery.
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Enigma
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 13,969
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Post by Enigma on May 16, 2019 13:42:02 GMT
Welp, mind doesn't get out of the way of itself. If it did, we would rightly ask how mind became two in order to do that (a la E. T.). Instead, mind gets out of the way of the source of mind. Now it's a little more understandable how mind gets put to rest. Mind is then used as a tool that is either picked up, or not. Now the question becomes, Under what circumstances would the source of mind put mind down? What would make the source turn and walk off the battlefield, since that is indeed what happens? Yeah, I know why mind can't be tricked. The plan to trick (or any plan) is formed at the conscious level of mind, and the vast majority of mind's functioning is unconscious. Ego hides in the unconscious and watches the plans form, poking a stick in the spokes whenever necessary. This is why spiritual practices are doomed from the start. That makes you a sloppylist nihilist. Yeah that's what it says on my drivers licence, so you're correct!
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Enigma
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 13,969
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Post by Enigma on May 16, 2019 14:01:25 GMT
Ego hides in the unconscious and watches the plans form, poking a stick in the spokes whenever necessary. This is why spiritual practices are doomed from the start. You must have a deep yearning to attain the Truth. [...] To understand this you have to meditate.... You [must] follow meditation assiduously.... I insist you stabilize yourself by meditation. Your senses are very active; they are not under control. By meditating, that particular weakness of your mind will be brought under control.... Persistence. That deep longing must be there. [...] To understand what I am telling you it is imperative that you have recourse to meditation. Don't be carried away by concepts, just dwell in the quietude. [...] You must make up your mind what you want.... If the determination [for Freedom or Realization] is that great—then it must come, but if you want something in the material world, it is not possible. The true pupil keeps this in mind and meditates." —Nisargadatta Maharaj (Seeds of Consciousness) Sounds good on paper, but in actuality it's a split mind ego battle that the conscious mind is not equipped to win.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2019 14:25:05 GMT
You must have a deep yearning to attain the Truth. [...] To understand this you have to meditate.... You [must] follow meditation assiduously.... I insist you stabilize yourself by meditation. Your senses are very active; they are not under control. By meditating, that particular weakness of your mind will be brought under control.... Persistence. That deep longing must be there. [...] To understand what I am telling you it is imperative that you have recourse to meditation. Don't be carried away by concepts, just dwell in the quietude. [...] You must make up your mind what you want.... If the determination [for Freedom or Realization] is that great—then it must come, but if you want something in the material world, it is not possible. The true pupil keeps this in mind and meditates." —Nisargadatta Maharaj (Seeds of Consciousness) Sounds good on paper, but in actuality it's a split mind ego battle that the conscious mind is not equipped to win. To denigrate spiritual practice in a public forum about spirituality, I find to be quite irresponsible of you. You have no knowledge to make such a claim.
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