Enigma
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Post by Enigma on May 15, 2019 4:39:05 GMT
Even when the universe dissolves into a dream of Consciousness, questions may remain about the origin of this field of Intelligence from which all life springs. The reason the answers are so elusive is that the questions have no foundation. We want to know where Consciousness came from, implying a temporal spatial framework and a cause/effect framework that have no actuality. All beginnings are illusory, including the beginning of God, and all causes are imagined, including the cause of God. Existential questions have no answers, not because they are beyond our understanding, but because the questions have no validity. All such questions are mysteries in the paradigm of mind only. Put mind to rest and the questions subside as well.
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Post by siftingtothetruth on May 15, 2019 12:46:48 GMT
Even when the universe dissolves into a dream of Consciousness, questions may remain about the origin of this field of Intelligence from which all life springs. The reason the answers are so elusive is that the questions have no foundation. We want to know where Consciousness came from, implying a temporal spatial framework and a cause/effect framework that have no actuality. All beginnings are illusory, including the beginning of God, and all causes are imagined, including the cause of God. Existential questions have no answers, not because they are beyond our understanding, but because the questions have no validity. All such questions are mysteries in the paradigm of mind only. Put mind to rest and the questions subside as well. I can't entirely agree. It is true that all such questions are mysteries in the paradigm of mind. It is, however, unquestionably also true that there is an unsayable Mystery. The mind cannot even name it; even its questions concerning it are false. But they are not entirely false. Its questions are reflections of that Mystery which certainly remains. We simply call it God.
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Enigma
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Posts: 13,969
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Post by Enigma on May 15, 2019 14:41:54 GMT
Even when the universe dissolves into a dream of Consciousness, questions may remain about the origin of this field of Intelligence from which all life springs. The reason the answers are so elusive is that the questions have no foundation. We want to know where Consciousness came from, implying a temporal spatial framework and a cause/effect framework that have no actuality. All beginnings are illusory, including the beginning of God, and all causes are imagined, including the cause of God. Existential questions have no answers, not because they are beyond our understanding, but because the questions have no validity. All such questions are mysteries in the paradigm of mind only. Put mind to rest and the questions subside as well. I can't entirely agree. It is true that all such questions are mysteries in the paradigm of mind. It is, however, unquestionably also true that there is an unsayable Mystery. The mind cannot even name it; even its questions concerning it are false. But they are not entirely false. Its questions are reflections of that Mystery which certainly remains. We simply call it God. As I see it, the mysteries formed by mind's existential questions are misconceived. This leaves an unsayable mystery in mind because mind cannot step outside of it's own paradigm to ask it's questions. That doesn't mean that there is an actual mystery. It's still mind's unsayable mystery. Mind has a very specific function; to bifurcate wholeness and form an individuated experience of otherness where there is no otherness. It cannot be the arbiter of it's own source, and beyond mind there are no mysteries to solve because there are no questions to ask, as I think you're implying with 'unasayable'.
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Post by siftingtothetruth on May 15, 2019 15:24:45 GMT
I can't entirely agree. It is true that all such questions are mysteries in the paradigm of mind. It is, however, unquestionably also true that there is an unsayable Mystery. The mind cannot even name it; even its questions concerning it are false. But they are not entirely false. Its questions are reflections of that Mystery which certainly remains. We simply call it God. As I see it, the mysteries formed by mind's existential questions are misconceived. This leaves an unsayable mystery in mind because mind cannot step outside of it's own paradigm to ask it's questions. That doesn't mean that there is an actual mystery. It's still mind's unsayable mystery. Mind has a very specific function; to bifurcate wholeness and form an individuated experience of otherness where there is no otherness. It cannot be the arbiter of it's own source, and beyond mind there are no mysteries to solve because there are no questions to ask, as I think you're implying with 'unasayable'. The questions are partly misconceived, but not wholly misconceived. Even to call it "mystery" is a mental concept, but for lack of a better word that is most certainly what we must call it. If there is such a thing as mind with any kind of function, then there most certainly is a mystery about how it operates, a mystery that clearly the mind cannot itself answer. If there is no such thing as mind, then we must remain silent.
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Post by Figgles on May 15, 2019 17:09:16 GMT
Even when the universe dissolves into a dream of Consciousness, questions may remain about the origin of this field of Intelligence from which all life springs. The reason the answers are so elusive is that the questions have no foundation. We want to know where Consciousness came from, implying a temporal spatial framework and a cause/effect framework that have no actuality. All beginnings are illusory, including the beginning of God, and all causes are imagined, including the cause of God. Existential questions have no answers, not because they are beyond our understanding, but because the questions have no validity. All such questions are mysteries in the paradigm of mind only. Put mind to rest and the questions subside as well. Amen. .... (Hallelujah and Namaste, too.) Perfectly and succinctly put.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2019 18:12:30 GMT
As I see it, the mysteries formed by mind's existential questions are misconceived. This leaves an unsayable mystery in mind because mind cannot step outside of it's own paradigm to ask it's questions. That doesn't mean that there is an actual mystery. It's still mind's unsayable mystery. Mind has a very specific function; to bifurcate wholeness and form an individuated experience of otherness where there is no otherness. It cannot be the arbiter of it's own source, and beyond mind there are no mysteries to solve because there are no questions to ask, as I think you're implying with 'unasayable'. The questions are partly misconceived, but not wholly misconceived. Even to call it "mystery" is a mental concept, but for lack of a better word that is most certainly what we must call it. If there is such a thing as mind with any kind of function, then there most certainly is a mystery about how it operates, a mystery that clearly the mind cannot itself answer. If there is no such thing as mind, then we must remain silent. If everything is being imagined, then all questions which rises definitely will not for some answers instead it's to realise the futility of its own existence, he is correct here.
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muttley
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Posts: 4,394
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Post by muttley on May 15, 2019 23:25:39 GMT
I can't entirely agree. It is true that all such questions are mysteries in the paradigm of mind. It is, however, unquestionably also true that there is an unsayable Mystery. The mind cannot even name it; even its questions concerning it are false. But they are not entirely false. Its questions are reflections of that Mystery which certainly remains. We simply call it God. As I see it, the mysteries formed by mind's existential questions are misconceived. This leaves an unsayable mystery in mind because mind cannot step outside of it's own paradigm to ask it's questions. That doesn't mean that there is an actual mystery. It's still mind's unsayable mystery. Mind has a very specific function; to bifurcate wholeness and form an individuated experience of otherness where there is no otherness. It cannot be the arbiter of it's own source, and beyond mind there are no mysteries to solve because there are no questions to ask, as I think you're implying with 'unasayable'. Isn't it rather mysterious though, how sometimes, mind gets out of the way? You likely have an explanation as for why there's no convincing or tricking mind into standing down .. and yet sometimes the mind gets put to rest, and the questions subside. Is that, explicable?
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Enigma
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 13,969
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Post by Enigma on May 15, 2019 23:27:00 GMT
As I see it, the mysteries formed by mind's existential questions are misconceived. This leaves an unsayable mystery in mind because mind cannot step outside of it's own paradigm to ask it's questions. That doesn't mean that there is an actual mystery. It's still mind's unsayable mystery. Mind has a very specific function; to bifurcate wholeness and form an individuated experience of otherness where there is no otherness. It cannot be the arbiter of it's own source, and beyond mind there are no mysteries to solve because there are no questions to ask, as I think you're implying with 'unasayable'. The questions are partly misconceived, but not wholly misconceived. Even to call it "mystery" is a mental concept, but for lack of a better word that is most certainly what we must call it. If there is such a thing as mind with any kind of function, then there most certainly is a mystery about how it operates, a mystery that clearly the mind cannot itself answer. If there is no such thing as mind, then we must remain silent. What we mean by mind is a process of thought, and that is demonstrably happening, so I see no need to question the validity of the concept. There is also the valid idea that nothing can transcend it's own functioning in order to understand how it's own functioning functions. So, there IS a mystery, but what I'm saying is that mind is limited, by it's function, to see what transcends that function as mysterious. The transcendent is not a mystery to the transcendent. It's only when mind is brought into the picture that mysteries show up. What would you say is not misconceived about existential questions?
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Post by siftingtothetruth on May 15, 2019 23:39:53 GMT
The questions are partly misconceived, but not wholly misconceived. Even to call it "mystery" is a mental concept, but for lack of a better word that is most certainly what we must call it. If there is such a thing as mind with any kind of function, then there most certainly is a mystery about how it operates, a mystery that clearly the mind cannot itself answer. If there is no such thing as mind, then we must remain silent. What we mean by mind is a process of thought, and that is demonstrably happening, so I see no need to question the validity of the concept. There is also the valid idea that nothing can transcend it's own functioning in order to understand how it's own functioning functions. So, there IS a mystery, but what I'm saying is that mind is limited, by it's function, to see what transcends that function as mysterious. The transcendent is not a mystery to the transcendent. It's only when mind is brought into the picture that mysteries show up. What would you say is not misconceived about existential questions? The transcendent was never the mystery to begin with. The non-transcendent was. But even that is wrong, of course. Whatever the mystery is, in any case, to the transcendent it is not a mystery nor is it NOT a mystery. What is not misconceived about existential questions is that they gesture to something that is neither immanent nor transcendental, that can neither be understood nor lived. It is the threshold between thing and not thing; it is not even an it; and it can neither be said to be known nor not known. It is certainly beyond our little human minds, supposedly Self-realized or not.
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Enigma
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 13,969
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Post by Enigma on May 16, 2019 0:00:35 GMT
As I see it, the mysteries formed by mind's existential questions are misconceived. This leaves an unsayable mystery in mind because mind cannot step outside of it's own paradigm to ask it's questions. That doesn't mean that there is an actual mystery. It's still mind's unsayable mystery. Mind has a very specific function; to bifurcate wholeness and form an individuated experience of otherness where there is no otherness. It cannot be the arbiter of it's own source, and beyond mind there are no mysteries to solve because there are no questions to ask, as I think you're implying with 'unasayable'. Isn't it rather mysterious though, how sometimes, mind gets out of the way? You likely have an explanation as for why there's no convincing or tricking mind into standing down .. and yet sometimes the mind gets put to rest, and the questions subside. Is that, explicable? Welp, mind doesn't get out of the way of itself. If it did, we would rightly ask how mind became two in order to do that (a la E. T.). Instead, mind gets out of the way of the source of mind. Now it's a little more understandable how mind gets put to rest. Mind is then used as a tool that is either picked up, or not. Now the question becomes, Under what circumstances would the source of mind put mind down? What would make the source turn and walk off the battlefield, since that is indeed what happens? Yeah, I know why mind can't be tricked. The plan to trick (or any plan) is formed at the conscious level of mind, and the vast majority of mind's functioning is unconscious. Ego hides in the unconscious and watches the plans form, poking a stick in the spokes whenever necessary. This is why spiritual practices are doomed from the start.
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