|
Post by Figgles on Jul 16, 2022 17:39:26 GMT
Your inability to grasp the difference between the relative context....the story and it's content vs. the absolute/existential Truth of the matter, and your stubborness that has you refusing to even entertain the idea that others have realized something you have not because they are seeing from an entirely different vantage point, has you being a jerk.
|
|
|
Post by Figgles on Jul 16, 2022 18:05:25 GMT
The continued engagement with the appearance of perception/experience relative to appearing people does NOT equal evidence of "forgetting" the inherent emptiness of all appearance/perceivables.
This fallacy needs to be put to rest. It's delusion at it's finest.
In SR, the entirety of the appearing world, all it's things, all idea, thoughts, feelings, senses, all of it, is now arising/appearing 'within/to' awareness that is 'beyond all appearing things.' This is why all appearing things are now seen to be arising 'within/to' that which abides.
The locus of seeing is now with the abiding/beyond undefined 'locus' of seeing/perspective.
That seeing from beyond abides unproblematically alongside the appearing world...alongside/in tandem with all facets of experience...the me character, the you character, the appearance of sentience relative to each.
The idea that in engaging the appearance, at face value, there is therefore, necessarily a "forgetting" that sentience/perception/experience on the part of appearing characters is "empty appearance only," hinges upon the erroneous idea that realization is relative...experiential. A conceptual, "remembered" knowing/knowledge. It isn't.
SR means that seeing of it all is happening from beyond the experiential....seeing only shifts to beyond when the SVP is seen through/becomes absent....is no longer erroneously imagined.
The argument that there's a walk/talk issue for those of us who say that appearing people, their appearing perception/experience, all empty appearance only, therefore absent absolute knowing/Truth, is the equivalent of arguing that there's a walk/talk issue for those who say there is no separation but who continue to engage apparent distinction.
The realization of no separation is not "forgotten" just because apparent distinction is engaged with.
|
|
|
Post by Figgles on Jul 16, 2022 18:45:58 GMT
A mystical experience where you see the nature of the spider and the nature is something that you know via experience, is not 'transcendent' of experience, even though it might seem like it is.
True nature does not equal a known/experiential/sensed/felt quality/property, rather, true nature = a non-conceptual seeing/knowing from a position of seeing that is well and truly "beyond" ALL appearance...ALL perceivables.
I have had all sorts of 'mystical' experience involving animals....a sense of 'becoming' embodied into the insect/animal....of seeing through the eyes....experiencing 'bugness...catness' etc, and these experiences are wonderful, awe-inspiring and definitely impact overall experience, but despite the fact that they 'seem to be' otherworldly/transcendent, they too are still 'experiential content.'
|
|
|
Post by Figgles on Jul 16, 2022 18:50:40 GMT
Bingo! Totally agree. You've explained perfectly why Nonduality/seeing the inherent emptiness of ALL appearance, including "experiencing/perceiving people," does not equal "Solipsism."
SR reveals the 'me character' AND the 'you character,' to be empty appearance only....it reveals the fallacy of a perciever/experiencer....it reveals the perceiving entity...ALL perceiving entities, to be false/erroneously imagined/delusion.
|
|
|
Post by Figgles on Jul 16, 2022 18:53:45 GMT
That is perfectly put and the fact that you are able to express such clarity has me highly suspecting that you've just been fucking with me all this time in your arguments about "no distinction between the ground appearance." You obviously DO have clear reference for that distinction. So long as something is appearing....there is distinction...and yes, distinction is NOT separation.
|
|
|
Post by Figgles on Jul 16, 2022 18:55:19 GMT
Right...but where does the absolute knowing that all things, all forms, cats, rats and piles of poop are "perceiving/experiencing"?
|
|
|
Post by Figgles on Jul 16, 2022 18:57:35 GMT
From the absolute level/perspective, the cat is clearly and obviously a temporal arising/appearance within/to the abiding ground. But yeah, beyond that, no-thing to 'know absolutely' about the relatively appearing cat.
|
|
|
Post by Figgles on Jul 16, 2022 19:02:41 GMT
Well, if the 'awareness' within which the cat appears/arises = "I am," then, the ground is "I/Self" and that which appears is always an "expression of" that.
The cat is a temporal appearance...it never becomes unbounded/abiding....boundedness/distinction arises/appears within/to the unbounded. Some want to say that therefore, the cat appearance is also "abiding....unbounded," but that's a nonsense. By virtue of being an 'expression/a distinction," all arising content/things ARE "apparent boundedness/apparent limitations" appearing within to the unlimited.
The appearance never becomes "unlimited/not distinct." Temporality = limitation. Both of course, appearance only.
|
|
|
Post by Figgles on Jul 16, 2022 19:16:05 GMT
That the spider is also God/Godding says nothing about whether it is actually 'perceiving/experiencing' or not. This is where the confusion lies.
And fwiw, it's not actually "a body" that witnesses....just as there is ultimately no actual perceiver/experiencer/doer, there is also no 'witnessing entity.' The shift in seeing that = SR, will reveal that.
|
|
|
Post by Figgles on Jul 16, 2022 19:20:39 GMT
Sharon, you are under this gross misconception because for you, seeing is still mired in the dream, with the dream-character. When there's truly been the shift in seeing that is SR, impersonal and personal DO very much simultaneously abide...the person is 'couched within' the seeing from beyond/unbounded awareness. yes, believe it or not, it's is entirely possible for there to be experience of personal feelings, bodily sensations, ideas, thoughts, etc, and all of that, couched within unbounded awareness....all at the same present, NOW moment. Hard to imagine, hey?
|
|