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Post by Figgles on Jun 12, 2022 17:18:08 GMT
Like many Nonduality pointers, this one gets conceptualized more often that not, when really, it's a very pointy pointer to the absence of a personal creator AND all processes that get erroneously imagined to be inherent to present moment appearance.
(Fwiw, all there IS, is "present moment appearance"...mind imagines there is a world, appearing things 'beyond'...but appearances 'beyond' NOW, can only ever be imagined).
Perception = Creation is in actuality, a pointer to the seeing through of the idea of a process of "creation." When it gets conceptualized/erroneously mis-taken, it gets taken as a reification of/assertion of a process of creation.
This is why I prefer these days to not even use the term "creation" when talking about the appearing/arising world....the seemingly unfolding story.
For most, it's impossible to hear the term "creation," without invoking a time-based, sequential process, and that is precisely what gets seen through in SR/awakening.
The belief in a process of creation = delusion. A "process" of creation...a some-thing/entity that is a creator, would equal actual separation.
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Post by Figgles on Jun 12, 2022 17:54:44 GMT
Nice.
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Esponja
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 1,727
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Post by Esponja on Jun 13, 2022 0:19:42 GMT
Like many Nonduality pointers, this one gets conceptualized more often that not, when really, it's a very pointy pointer to the absence of a personal creator AND all processes that get erroneously imagined to be inherent to present moment appearance. (Fwiw, all there IS, is "present moment appearance"...mind imagines there is a world, appearing things 'beyond'...but appearances 'beyond' NOW, can only ever be imagined). Perception = Creation is in actuality, a pointer to the seeing through of the idea of a process of "creation." When it gets conceptualized/erroneously mis-taken, it gets taken as a reification of/assertion of a process of creation. This is why I prefer these days to not even use the term "creation" when talking about the appearing/arising world....the seemingly unfolding story. For most, it's impossible to hear the term "creation," without invoking a time-based, sequential process, and that is precisely what gets seen through in SR/awakening. The belief in a process of creation = delusion. A "process" of creation...a some-thing/entity that is a creator, would equal actual separation. I notice thoughts like to make consciousness an entity. Mind just can’t go there. |
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Esponja
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 1,727
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Post by Esponja on Jun 13, 2022 0:21:40 GMT
Yep. Again. Mind can only think in duality. Don’t go there. |
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Post by Figgles on Jun 15, 2022 21:15:12 GMT
This perfectly demonstrates "Perception = Creation."
True "alignment" is an absence of imagined separation. And when imagined separation is absent, so are the kinds of deep and erroneous judgments you are making about appearing bodily conditions.
I wonder, how do you reconcile 'bodily death' with your idea that one who is "in alignment" will ALWAYS, undoubtedly, physically thrive? Bodily death still inevitably happens and however you spin that, that ultimate failure of the body to thrive/remain alive, contradicts your belief that a contrived, managed, controlled state of emotional/mental "alignment," guarantees living and thriving physically.
I know you will say one who is aligned, won't experience any health ailments before bodily death, but that still does not address the fact that bodily death is the epitome of a bodies 'failure to thrive.'
The issue here is that you look to apparent conditions of others to ascertain their "alignment of lack thereof." The very fact that you are hung up on appearing conditions like that, actually speaks to where you are seeing from.....namely, the eyes of a separate person/entity.
Plain and simply, you cannot know for certain the emotional countenance of another, his state of inner peace or lack thereof, simply through observing the conditions relative to his appearing person.
Your statement "why settle for less," is so revealing on several counts. It indicates that you truly believe the person has control over what appears, and you also reveal your own personal judgments about bodily conditions or any condition that does not conform to what you deem to be "perfect,"....you take those apparently imperfect conditions, to be 'wrong/bad/a mistake/something to be fixed.'
Looking from an impersonal perspective, it's clear that in denigrating and eschewing certain conditions in favor of others, it's you who has settled "for less."
Life includes both liked and disliked things....transcendence means accepting that...even loving that, which means the end of judgment that runs a depth down to the fundamental.
Ultimately, it's ALL perfect. But it takes a particular shift in seeing to realize/know that. When it is known, there's no longer any strong drive or need to 'change,' the unfolding story. There is a deep trust that whatever happens is as it should be...a gift in itself, regardless of mind's judgments that may say otherwise.
There is value and beauty in ALL of it.
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Esponja
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 1,727
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Post by Esponja on Jun 20, 2022 0:43:25 GMT
This perfectly demonstrates "Perception = Creation." True "alignment" is an absence of imagined separation. And when imagined separation is absent, so are the kinds of deep and erroneous judgments you are making about appearing bodily conditions. I wonder, how do you reconcile 'bodily death' with your idea that one who is "in alignment" will ALWAYS, undoubtedly, physically thrive? Bodily death still inevitably happens and however you spin that, that ultimate failure of the body to thrive/remain alive, contradicts your belief that a contrived, managed, controlled state of emotional/mental "alignment," guarantees living and thriving physically. I know you will say one who is aligned, won't experience any health ailments before bodily death, but that still does not address the fact that bodily death is the epitome of a bodies 'failure to thrive.' The issue here is that you look to apparent conditions of others to ascertain their "alignment of lack thereof." The very fact that you are hung up on appearing conditions like that, actually speaks to where you are seeing from.....namely, the eyes of a separate person/entity. Plain and simply, you cannot know for certain the emotional countenance of another, his state of inner peace or lack thereof, simply through observing the conditions relative to his appearing person. Your statement "why settle for less," is so revealing on several counts. It indicates that you truly believe the person has control over what appears, and you also reveal your own personal judgments about bodily conditions or any condition that does not conform to what you deem to be "perfect,"....you take those apparently imperfect conditions, to be 'wrong/bad/a mistake/something to be fixed.' Looking from an impersonal perspective, it's clear that in denigrating and eschewing certain conditions in favor of others, it's you who has settled "for less." Life includes both liked and disliked things....transcendence means accepting that...even loving that, which means the end of judgment that runs a depth down to the fundamental. Ultimately, it's ALL perfect. But it takes a particular shift in seeing to realize/know that. When it is known, there's no longer any strong drive or need to 'change,' the unfolding story. There is a deep trust that whatever happens is as it should be...a gift in itself, regardless of mind's judgments that may say otherwise. There is value and beauty in ALL of it. Didn’t Esther’s hubby die from cancer? How do the LOA’ers explain that? What about babies that come in? Of course they have their nonsense spin on it. The cynic in me, always doubted that. It’s a bit like the Dispenza influenza. Everyone got sick after one or two of his retreats and he called it an upgrade(rather than food poisoning or a freezing cold room). That’s when I saw it as a bit ‘cult-ish’. (However, it is seen that even the story of ‘cult-ish’ is another belief/concept/judgment). |
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Post by Figgles on Jun 20, 2022 2:28:46 GMT
This perfectly demonstrates "Perception = Creation." True "alignment" is an absence of imagined separation. And when imagined separation is absent, so are the kinds of deep and erroneous judgments you are making about appearing bodily conditions. I wonder, how do you reconcile 'bodily death' with your idea that one who is "in alignment" will ALWAYS, undoubtedly, physically thrive? Bodily death still inevitably happens and however you spin that, that ultimate failure of the body to thrive/remain alive, contradicts your belief that a contrived, managed, controlled state of emotional/mental "alignment," guarantees living and thriving physically. I know you will say one who is aligned, won't experience any health ailments before bodily death, but that still does not address the fact that bodily death is the epitome of a bodies 'failure to thrive.' The issue here is that you look to apparent conditions of others to ascertain their "alignment of lack thereof." The very fact that you are hung up on appearing conditions like that, actually speaks to where you are seeing from.....namely, the eyes of a separate person/entity. Plain and simply, you cannot know for certain the emotional countenance of another, his state of inner peace or lack thereof, simply through observing the conditions relative to his appearing person. Your statement "why settle for less," is so revealing on several counts. It indicates that you truly believe the person has control over what appears, and you also reveal your own personal judgments about bodily conditions or any condition that does not conform to what you deem to be "perfect,"....you take those apparently imperfect conditions, to be 'wrong/bad/a mistake/something to be fixed.' Looking from an impersonal perspective, it's clear that in denigrating and eschewing certain conditions in favor of others, it's you who has settled "for less." Life includes both liked and disliked things....transcendence means accepting that...even loving that, which means the end of judgment that runs a depth down to the fundamental. Ultimately, it's ALL perfect. But it takes a particular shift in seeing to realize/know that. When it is known, there's no longer any strong drive or need to 'change,' the unfolding story. There is a deep trust that whatever happens is as it should be...a gift in itself, regardless of mind's judgments that may say otherwise. There is value and beauty in ALL of it.
Didn’t Esther’s hubby die from cancer? How do the LOA’ers explain that? What about babies that come in? Of course they have their nonsense spin on it. The cynic in me, always doubted that. It’s a bit like the Dispenza influenza. Everyone got sick after one or two of his retreats and he called it an upgrade(rather than food poisoning or a freezing cold room). That’s when I saw it as a bit ‘cult-ish’. (However, it is seen that even the story of ‘cult-ish’ is another belief/concept/judgment). Yes, that got real tricky for Esther to try to explain when Jerry died from cancer. (Abe talked a lot in the workshops about how aligned Jerry was and what a great practicer of deliberate creation he was....how when Esther would get a tad negative about an issue, he just would NOT go there at all with her). It was clear at first, they were trying to hide the fact that he had cancer....understandable, why. But then he died fairly quickly of it, and the cat was out of the bag. It was explained away quite quickly as "nothing had ACTUALLY/ULTIMATELY gone wrong in Jerry's cancer and death." There was some alluding to all manifestations ultimately having multiple "intents/wants/desires" playing into them, along with the idea that ultimately, Jerry's highest desire was to know more about all the how/whys/what's pertaining to existential questions, thus, what better place to be seeing from than the afterlife. From what I recall, there was no suggestion that Jerry's cancer was due to him being out of alignment....whereas whenever someone sat in the hot-set at one of their seminars and talked about having cancer or some other health condition, it would always be pointed at that that was of course, directly because of their lowly, non-aligned vibration. In some cases re: babies born with genetic conditions or deformities, I think they blame that on the vibration of the mother..and then when conditions develop, they say that even tiny babies are emitting vibrations that attract conditions...that a tiny infant can be in vs. out of the vortex and that's why some kids experience horrific abuse and stuff like that. So there's some najor flip-flopping and contradicting that goes on there; They at times talk about desires/intents that go unseen/unknown that play out in manifestation...usually when they want to explain how it is that someone who is mostly in good spirits at all times, experiences something 'not-wanted.' I hadn't heard about that Dispenza influenza thing...interesting...I'm gonna read more about that!  |
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