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Post by Figgles on Jun 13, 2017 1:42:36 GMT
There is one sentence that stood out because I couldn't make sense of it exactly - at all, and that's " Everything is avoidance that gets annihilated in the long run. Spirituality is another one of them." Yeah, it isn't exactly clear here, either. It's a relative concept. The idea is that we avoid discomfort at any costs, by any means -such as spirituality. We can find more direct solutions to avoid discomfort for a while, but there is always going to be discomfort in life. But the more direct and practical the solution we find, the better. I agree. There is indeed a natural, built-in propensity to avoid discomfort and seek comfort, (as I said previously)...in all organisms from what I can see. But I don't see direct solutions to mitigate discomfort to at all be at odds with so called, 'less direct' solutions. They can abide together. I can swipe away a spider off my arm to prevent it from stinging me, AND simultaneously see that the squeamishness I continue to experience even though the spider is long gone, is mind created. (note; there need not be any vilification of mind in any of that seeing). The awareness of what's happening with mind, need not interfere with taking practical action that needs to be taken...in fact, the more calm mind is, the clearer the avenue to that practical action. Have you ever seen someone who was very afraid of spiders for example, freak out and start slapping themselves everywhere....losing sight of the spider, only to freak out more as they discover it's now escaped down his shirt..?
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Post by gabbynonstop on Jun 13, 2017 1:46:12 GMT
Bear with my budding thought, and let me know what you think: I've had a lot of shit in life, just like most people. After nearly 7 years in spirituality, the shit is more than ever. Would I participate in this grand debate about the nature of reality if I was happy? Hell no. If I had an easier time with people, especially the opposite gender? Not even at gunpoint. If I felt had more open avenues in life? No. Spirituality started with an idealistic idea, that all we know is knowing, that all anybody knows is knowing, and that is the ultimate thing that is. It's a very clever idea, and God knows what purpose did it serve when it got out in rural India, and later, ancient Greece. I know what it serves now. Avoidance. Thousands of people autistically trying to find themselves by looking at their spiritual navel, thousands of hours lost for something so simple that doesn't even exist. At least cigarettes give you nicotine, this opium is literally hope-in-a-box, that somehow knowing what youself is, will make life better, easier, more palatable. The more you engage in this solipsism-inferred-into-monism, the more you invest in it. The pinnacle of this is spiritual teachers, with their livelihood dependent on the idea that somehow, their particular brand of pseudo-idealism-turned-monism is the case. They sprinkle in some meditation, some 'body work' and TADAAA. Here's a product. It doesn't matter what you are, there you are. Fill your hunger, your thirst, your emotions, your sexual organs, your mind, your sociality, your sense of family, your needs of occupying this body, your exercise, your finance, fill your sense of excitement, purpose, and adventure. That's what life calls for. Then, having fulfilled all of those satisfyingly (ahahaha), try to see what's missing. Of course there is something, there is always something, see if that something is a concept of idealism (consciousness is all) scribed by guys who lived and died centuries ago in ignorant societies much more different than yours. Let me tell you spirituality's function: It serves delaying seeking for a solution that may or may not exist, for your life's very practical and throbbing problems. Let me tell you what spiritual teachers do: They serve you a completely unworkable idea starting up, let you chew up on its irrelevant specifics (does the perceiver perceive himself... who funking cares?), and when you are done, they have to deal with your practical, actual, real-life questions. Then they use whatever actual-life experience they have amassed to deal with your problem, spouting their homemade concepts (unique to every individual teacher), which have no relation with other teachers' concepts. If that doesn't cut it, they then say that spirituality isn't about those practical problems (lol that's funny), and that they should seek outside assistance. If he's a somewhat realistic one, he will tell you that every human needs shelter and food to be basically satisfied, and each person should seek their own level of emotional and social comfort. Basically they divest the spiritual cure-all value as they run out of spiritual bearings, til spirituality is seen as nothing more than a luxury (if you go far enough in their concept-maze). Let me say that simpler if I can: They present us with a great, cure-all idea, and then as real problems come up that this idea can't solve, the idea is getting progressively discounted, until you remain with an empty concept. Life doesn't have A solution. A cure-all, A silver bullet, doesn't exist. Life is funking tough, cruel some of the times, and there is never one solution, there are only your temporary solutions. Nothing really works, not forever. Nothing will save you, because life isn't about saving yourself, not at all. You can't save yourself if you are living, there will always be more shit coming your way. You will get saved when you die, and that's it. Everything is avoidance that gets annihilated in the long run. Spirituality is another one of them. Show me a spiritual teacher, and I will show you someone who's having it easier than you, with more practical, life resources and solutions than you. Or someone who's faking it more, at least. Well, here’s what I think. I wish I would have read this prior to engaging with you on Friday night for 5 plus hours. It’s my bad, I just didn’t see the post prior to today when someone else replied to it (I believe it was gopal). So, hey, that’s quite the enchilada you’ve horked up. 7 years? That’s it? That’s all you’ve got invested? Hell, I’ve got socks older than that. Navel gazing? LOL. That makes me laugh. Somehow I just don’t see the AVOIDANCE factor you’ve come up with in your equation as being any kind of conclusion. It’s more like a symptom, and what the symptom is describing is lack of awareness. Go deeper. I’m sure you’re asking yourself, “What the hell is wrong with this guy? Go deeper?” Yeah, go deeper. What does that mean? The memory of perfection cannot be lost, only covered over. By what? Thought. Our source is silent. So, when we become just as silent ourselves, what happens? Attunement. What is attunement? Healing. We've been in separation. It may take some time. Why? In time is where the separation took place. Time? Movement of mind. Does healing happen in the blink of an eye? Well, yes, it can happen that way. Its been pointed to throughout the ages, referred to as a miracle. Does it happen to everyone that way? In my experience, no. For most of us, our bodies need to release the energy that is stuck to outworn emotions, memories, and traumas. But each time we dive into source energy, silence, we heal a little more. Time bound awareness is in the intellect, it calculates. Timeless awareness is in the heart, it feels. So, that’s my take on meditation. This too I am enjoying. Unless ppl speak their hearts it be the usual 'Intellect be God' (no offence to Mr Gopal intended) I do hope this site of spiritualgab is full of this kind of relating. cheers
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2017 2:01:17 GMT
Well, here’s what I think. I wish I would have read this prior to engaging with you on Friday night for 5 plus hours. It’s my bad, I just didn’t see the post prior to today when someone else replied to it (I believe it was gopal). So, hey, that’s quite the enchilada you’ve horked up. 7 years? That’s it? That’s all you’ve got invested? Hell, I’ve got socks older than that. Navel gazing? LOL. That makes me laugh. Somehow I just don’t see the AVOIDANCE factor you’ve come up with in your equation as being any kind of conclusion. It’s more like a symptom, and what the symptom is describing is lack of awareness. Go deeper. I’m sure you’re asking yourself, “What the hell is wrong with this guy? Go deeper?” Yeah, go deeper. What does that mean? The memory of perfection cannot be lost, only covered over. By what? Thought. Our source is silent. So, when we become just as silent ourselves, what happens? Attunement. What is attunement? Healing. We've been in separation. It may take some time. Why? In time is where the separation took place. Time? Movement of mind. Does healing happen in the blink of an eye? Well, yes, it can happen that way. Its been pointed to throughout the ages, referred to as a miracle. Does it happen to everyone that way? In my experience, no. For most of us, our bodies need to release the energy that is stuck to outworn emotions, memories, and traumas. But each time we dive into source energy, silence, we heal a little more. Time bound awareness is in the intellect, it calculates. Timeless awareness is in the heart, it feels. So, that’s my take on meditation. This too I am enjoying. Unless ppl speak their hearts it be the usual 'Intellect be God' (no offence to Mr Gopal intended) I do hope this site of spiritualgab is full of this kind of relating. cheers Good to SEE you again, gabby. Yeah, good on figs for firing this space up. I look forward to reading here every day. Cheers.
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Post by Theodore on Jun 13, 2017 12:34:21 GMT
I can absolutely understand the pressure you are undergoing with your life. And thanks for such a honest post. I agree with you to some extent, but trust me that's not the way universe works, I thoroughly can state the fact that we experience the trouble in our life only because of the self-delusion we have , our experience just reflect our inner conflict(I am not gaining this knowledge from any guru, rather I am gaining the knowledge from my clarity and experience) And you said you have problem with opposite sex interaction, I don't know what you meant in this place, If you don't mine, can you care to explain this? The problem comes with certain people is for sure and those people are stamped with certain characteristic! The kind of experience they are giving you is absolutely perfect with inner pattern, you can't expect to improve yourself rather you can bring some other people inside your life where you don't face the same problem once you faced. Hey Gopal, thanks for the post. You say that trouble in our life is only because of inner conflict, self delusion. I have to ask, where does that inner conflict come from? In fact, I see both inner and outer conflict as life's unasked for troubles, which may or may never get solved. I, personally, would never want to be a long-time devotee or a long time explorer of the soul the way most people that pay up retreats are. Well, I think every person has trouble understanding their preferred sex. I'm not unique to this. I, personally, know what I currently like, give or take, and it's giving me trouble. It's complicated and I think a private conversation between me and you would be more enlightening, for you and for me
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Post by Theodore on Jun 13, 2017 12:45:28 GMT
Yup...shit happens and will continue to happen. ON that we DO agree. Spirituality, as I see it, addresses how we look at, experience and respond to the inevitable shit. Experience changes dramatically if you can even lighten up a teeny bit in terms of how seriously you regard the content of experience. I see the propensity to seek to feel better when experiencing emotional or physical pain, as something that is built-in to all living being.....it is what it is, and working with that natural propensity rather than fighting against it, in my estimation is to follow the path of least resistance. No, life does not have a solution...and does not need one. To see that is to end any and all fights with life...and really, in terms of 'spiritual knowledge,' if that is all one ever saw, it would be more than enough. How does spirituality do that? It hasn't changed how I look at, experience and respond to the inevitable shit. Maybe I've done all the wrong things, but then spirituality didn't help at all with that. I will lighten up a bit when I get better at it. There's nothing in spirituality that will change my outlook until I get, you know, better at life things. I felt a lot of good in spirituality, until I didn't. I would never want to spend the decades using this opium that other people have spent, on the feet of some dude. No thanks. Life doesn't need a solution? To live it needs hundreds. It needs fights as well. To live, you have to fight all the time.
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Post by Theodore on Jun 13, 2017 12:58:12 GMT
Well, here’s what I think. I wish I would have read this prior to engaging with you on Friday night for 5 plus hours. It’s my bad, I just didn’t see the post prior to today when someone else replied to it (I believe it was gopal). So, hey, that’s quite the enchilada you’ve horked up. 7 years? That’s it? That’s all you’ve got invested? Hell, I’ve got socks older than that. Navel gazing? LOL. That makes me laugh. Somehow I just don’t see the AVOIDANCE factor you’ve come up with in your equation as being any kind of conclusion. It’s more like a symptom, and what the symptom is describing is lack of awareness. Go deeper. I’m sure you’re asking yourself, “What the hell is wrong with this guy? Go deeper?” Yeah, go deeper. What does that mean? The memory of perfection cannot be lost, only covered over. By what? Thought. Our source is silent. So, when we become just as silent ourselves, what happens? Attunement. What is attunement? Healing. We've been in separation. It may take some time. Why? In time is where the separation took place. Time? Movement of mind. Does healing happen in the blink of an eye? Well, yes, it can happen that way. Its been pointed to throughout the ages, referred to as a miracle. Does it happen to everyone that way? In my experience, no. For most of us, our bodies need to release the energy that is stuck to outworn emotions, memories, and traumas. But each time we dive into source energy, silence, we heal a little more. Time bound awareness is in the intellect, it calculates. Timeless awareness is in the heart, it feels. So, that’s my take on meditation. Well, it was that easy to change your mind about me, that's how easy it can be for one's mind about spirituality to be changed as well. Yeah, 7 years, that's it. It's too much. Too much bullshit. My alarm went off. There is no perfection. If there was, it couldn't possibly be covered up by anything. There is no source either. When you become silent, you just become silent. There is no source there. Healing can't happen, everything is written, you can just grow through your traumata. If there's something we can call healing, it certainly doesn't happen instantly. When timeless awareness in the heart is interrupted by naptime, pottytime, or munchytime, you know what's truly important in life.
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Post by Theodore on Jun 13, 2017 13:03:57 GMT
Yeah, it isn't exactly clear here, either. It's a relative concept. The idea is that we avoid discomfort at any costs, by any means -such as spirituality. We can find more direct solutions to avoid discomfort for a while, but there is always going to be discomfort in life. But the more direct and practical the solution we find, the better. I agree. There is indeed a natural, built-in propensity to avoid discomfort and seek comfort, (as I said previously)...in all organisms from what I can see. But I don't see direct solutions to mitigate discomfort to at all be at odds with so called, 'less direct' solutions. They can abide together. I can swipe away a spider off my arm to prevent it from stinging me, AND simultaneously see that the squeamishness I continue to experience even though the spider is long gone, is mind created. (note; there need not be any vilification of mind in any of that seeing). The awareness of what's happening with mind, need not interfere with taking practical action that needs to be taken...in fact, the more calm mind is, the clearer the avenue to that practical action. Have you ever seen someone who was very afraid of spiders for example, freak out and start slapping themselves everywhere....losing sight of the spider, only to freak out more as they discover it's now escaped down his shirt..? Well, the general idea is, drugs could mitigate discomfort, but they are not direct solutions to the problem you are facing. Therefore they are avoiding tactics, and they fuck you up as well. Can they abide together with the root of your discomfort? They actually can't! There is a reason for the mind to be doing that with spiders. Something happened there. That is to be adressed. Calm mind isn't the end-all be-all. Calm mind is a consequence. A consequence of being good at what you are doing. We mistake the ends with the means, the effects and the roots. If I haven't had, say, family troubles, I wouldn't be thinking about family and I would have a calm mind, but now I am thinking about it, the trouble isn't that I'm thinking about the family troubles. The trouble is the family troubles. So let's adress the actual problem, rather than thinking there's something wrong with my mind.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2017 13:19:08 GMT
Well, here’s what I think. I wish I would have read this prior to engaging with you on Friday night for 5 plus hours. It’s my bad, I just didn’t see the post prior to today when someone else replied to it (I believe it was gopal). So, hey, that’s quite the enchilada you’ve horked up. 7 years? That’s it? That’s all you’ve got invested? Hell, I’ve got socks older than that. Navel gazing? LOL. That makes me laugh. Somehow I just don’t see the AVOIDANCE factor you’ve come up with in your equation as being any kind of conclusion. It’s more like a symptom, and what the symptom is describing is lack of awareness. Go deeper. I’m sure you’re asking yourself, “What the hell is wrong with this guy? Go deeper?” Yeah, go deeper. What does that mean? The memory of perfection cannot be lost, only covered over. By what? Thought. Our source is silent. So, when we become just as silent ourselves, what happens? Attunement. What is attunement? Healing. We've been in separation. It may take some time. Why? In time is where the separation took place. Time? Movement of mind. Does healing happen in the blink of an eye? Well, yes, it can happen that way. Its been pointed to throughout the ages, referred to as a miracle. Does it happen to everyone that way? In my experience, no. For most of us, our bodies need to release the energy that is stuck to outworn emotions, memories, and traumas. But each time we dive into source energy, silence, we heal a little more. Time bound awareness is in the intellect, it calculates. Timeless awareness is in the heart, it feels. So, that’s my take on meditation. Well, it was that easy to change your mind about me, that's how easy it can be for one's mind about spirituality to be changed as well. Yeah, 7 years, that's it. It's too much. Too much bullshit. My alarm went off. There is no perfection. If there was, it couldn't possibly be covered up by anything. There is no source either. When you become silent, you just become silent. There is no source there. Healing can't happen, everything is written, you can just grow through your traumata. If there's something we can call healing, it certainly doesn't happen instantly. When timeless awareness in the heart is interrupted by naptime, pottytime, or munchytime, you know what's truly important in life. It wasn't a matter of changing my mind. Friday night was a piecemeal discussion. A little bit here, and a little bit there. Saturday morning I was preparing for a round of golf. I wanted to sit quietly. What does everything is written mean? Reads like an avant garde way of pointing at conditioning. The perfection is obfuscated by a mind running amok. I acknowledged healing doesn't come instantly. Even if someone with an illness goes to Lourdes and happens upon a healing, there was a process prior to that to be navigated. The process of discovery. In a way, the body is that process. Healing is engaged as a result of constant communication with the 'field' of awareness. Look around. Everything is the same thing. Source.
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Post by Theodore on Jun 13, 2017 14:03:21 GMT
Bear with my budding thought, and let me know what you think: I've had a lot of shit in life, just like most people. After nearly 7 years in spirituality, the shit is more than ever. Would I participate in this grand debate about the nature of reality if I was happy? Hell no. If I had an easier time with people, especially the opposite gender? Not even at gunpoint. If I felt had more open avenues in life? No. Spirituality started with an idealistic idea, that all we know is knowing, that all anybody knows is knowing, and that is the ultimate thing that is. It's a very clever idea, and God knows what purpose did it serve when it got out in rural India, and later, ancient Greece. I know what it serves now. Avoidance. Thousands of people autistically trying to find themselves by looking at their spiritual navel, thousands of hours lost for something so simple that doesn't even exist. At least cigarettes give you nicotine, this opium is literally hope-in-a-box, that somehow knowing what youself is, will make life better, easier, more palatable. The more you engage in this solipsism-inferred-into-monism, the more you invest in it. The pinnacle of this is spiritual teachers, with their livelihood dependent on the idea that somehow, their particular brand of pseudo-idealism-turned-monism is the case. They sprinkle in some meditation, some 'body work' and TADAAA. Here's a product. It doesn't matter what you are, there you are. Fill your hunger, your thirst, your emotions, your sexual organs, your mind, your sociality, your sense of family, your needs of occupying this body, your exercise, your finance, fill your sense of excitement, purpose, and adventure. That's what life calls for. Then, having fulfilled all of those satisfyingly (ahahaha), try to see what's missing. Of course there is something, there is always something, see if that something is a concept of idealism (consciousness is all) scribed by guys who lived and died centuries ago in ignorant societies much more different than yours. Let me tell you spirituality's function: It serves delaying seeking for a solution that may or may not exist, for your life's very practical and throbbing problems. Let me tell you what spiritual teachers do: They serve you a completely unworkable idea starting up, let you chew up on its irrelevant specifics (does the perceiver perceive himself... who funking cares?), and when you are done, they have to deal with your practical, actual, real-life questions. Then they use whatever actual-life experience they have amassed to deal with your problem, spouting their homemade concepts (unique to every individual teacher), which have no relation with other teachers' concepts. If that doesn't cut it, they then say that spirituality isn't about those practical problems (lol that's funny), and that they should seek outside assistance. If he's a somewhat realistic one, he will tell you that every human needs shelter and food to be basically satisfied, and each person should seek their own level of emotional and social comfort. Basically they divest the spiritual cure-all value as they run out of spiritual bearings, til spirituality is seen as nothing more than a luxury (if you go far enough in their concept-maze). Let me say that simpler if I can: They present us with a great, cure-all idea, and then as real problems come up that this idea can't solve, the idea is getting progressively discounted, until you remain with an empty concept. Life doesn't have A solution. A cure-all, A silver bullet, doesn't exist. Life is funking tough, cruel some of the times, and there is never one solution, there are only your temporary solutions. Nothing really works, not forever. Nothing will save you, because life isn't about saving yourself, not at all. You can't save yourself if you are living, there will always be more shit coming your way. You will get saved when you die, and that's it. Everything is avoidance that gets annihilated in the long run. Spirituality is another one of them. Show me a spiritual teacher, and I will show you someone who's having it easier than you, with more practical, life resources and solutions than you. Or someone who's faking it more, at least. This above be my most enjoyably-read posting since I arrived; tail quivering. TY for exercising honesty. As I love to respond to ppl who have a heart I will add to your wisdoms-pit, "Life doesn't have A solution," with "Life is the Solution."When the realization that life is truly alive before the rendering of Mind (what I call the prior state of consciousness) they're home in the Heart so to speak. Fake gurus are an important part of this awakening. Cheers. Thank you for the kind words, although, having had an experience, I'm ready for your opinion to change at any moment Ok, what do you mean that 'life is the solution'? The rendering of Mind is part of life, and it's truly alive. Heart as well. How can we divide those two? There is not a non-fake guru.
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Post by gabbynonstop on Jun 14, 2017 1:40:15 GMT
Experience sure wisen's ones station in life.
What I mean about Life being the solution would come about thus; having studied too-long a subject and actualizing 'ridgid', the answer(s) first came of its own accord, the 'tryer' having been surrendered. Having insight in place, 'rigid' uncemented and became fluid... Life being the solution.
Yes to the minds renditions of reality; belief being the cementing-agent but which will MINIMIZE the truly-aliveness you mention... but what of this, "How can your WE devide Mind and Heart?" THAT is a great question as it describes the Human condition of most ppl that feel it is necessary to make a decision. I dont suffer this question mySelf so my guess is that I Am not a part of your WE.
Regarding the Guru, can you name all the Guru's you have sampled to arrive at the crux of your statement?
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