Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2022 22:58:04 GMT
I've asked a couple of times what Awakening has to do with this thread, but no one can answer Something to do with Truth! It depends. In one way, Truth has nothing to do with anything. It stands alone. The stories, the stuff that happens, the changing appearances, life....has nothing to do with Truth. I respect that view and think it's an important one. But I'm a messy bast*rd, and I would say that in another way, Truth relates to truthfulness. From that position, the unfolding of life, and the world....isn't divorced from Truth. Sorry but your post exemplifies why I added the emoji after the word Truth!
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Andrew
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Post by Andrew on Jan 9, 2022 23:00:31 GMT
It depends. In one way, Truth has nothing to do with anything. It stands alone. The stories, the stuff that happens, the changing appearances, life....has nothing to do with Truth. I respect that view and think it's an important one. But I'm a messy bast*rd, and I would say that in another way, Truth relates to truthfulness. From that position, the unfolding of life, and the world....isn't divorced from Truth. Sorry but your post exemplifies why I added the emoji after the word Truth!I only used the word because you did, it's not one I often use. So what on earth were you asking then?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2022 23:07:29 GMT
Sorry but your post exemplifies why I added the emoji after the word Truth!I only used the word because you did, it's not one I often use. So what on earth were you asking then? Sorry, kind of messing with you there.. I wasn't asking anything truth..the concept, means nothing really We do a lot of conceptualizing here
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Esponja
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Post by Esponja on Jan 9, 2022 23:09:14 GMT
There’s talk in many spiritual circles of an ‘awakening’. All of a sudden people are seeing through lies that were probably always there. It’s interesting. Hocus pocus nonsense, sorry You don’t think there are any lies?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2022 23:12:00 GMT
Hocus pocus nonsense, sorry You don’t think there are any lies? Now you've sequed to "lies"? You've changed the subject.
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Post by Figgles on Jan 9, 2022 23:27:47 GMT
I’d like to start a chat here: It’s still a struggle for me to understand the pull into this particular story when interest in most stories, beliefs, mind chatter is all but gone. When you think about it, is it any different to law of attraction, astrology or anything else going on in the world? Famine? Animal rights etc? Why are non-dualists pulled in here? It’s all seen to be ‘one’. No other. No out there, no in here. What does wakefulness truly mean? I think it depends what you mean by 'pulled in.' The moment suffering arises, wakefulness is not....the dream has sucked you in. There's an important difference between interest in the story vs. becoming completely sucked into the story. Being awake does not mean a cessation of interest in/engagment with the material world per se, but it does mean an absence of suffering for/because of that interest. What ceases is identification with the limited/bounded, which means, appearances of tyranny and such, even though they are not 'personally liked,' are couched in an overriding seeing of fundamental perfection. I might not like the fact that tyrants are trying to take over the world, but ultimately, I know it's all unfolding in absolute perfection. Whatever is presently appearing is perfectly what it is. Not a hair out of place. It's that seeing/realization of fundamental perfection that limits the depth of 'hold/pull' the story has. In other words, when the place of seeing shifts from the eyes of a limited SVP, to beyond, there's no longer the overlay of imagined separation/limitation heaped on top of the flow of naturally arising/ebbing feelings that then drag them down into suffering... absent that overlay (which is really noneother than the overlay of identification with a separately existent entity) there may still be feelings of excitement, concern, annoyance, not-liking, etc, but they arise and then easily flow on through...presence is always but a breath away should a fleeting sense of concern begin to deepen and take hold. The appearing character arises hand in hand with specific personality traits, likes and dislikes that very much continue on post SR. Interest goes where it goes and it cannot be predicted if or how interests will change after awakening. I know for me, my kids remain my strongest/deepest attachment...that I could somehow become so awake that I'd lose interest in their lives and well-being, is one I cannot imagine...there would have to be a monumental personality change for that to happen. What's happening right now in the world is something that most of us have never before experienced....We're observing a monumental shift in power.....to NOT have any interest in it seems rather odd to me, regardless of how enlightened one may be...I get the sense that some purposefully stay away from it, not due to lack of interest, but more due to fear of being pulled in too deep. For those that see/sense this is all ultimately leading to a better, more conscious and loving world, what's currently happening is more just a pathway to that...a necessary evil sort of thing that will ultimately pave the way to something much better. That said, I think it's normal at times to be aghast at times at the depth of the lies and tyranny....concerned somewhat about how far things might go in terms of affecting daily freedoms we've taken for granted....as well as excited about what's to come and how it will come about.
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Esponja
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Post by Esponja on Jan 9, 2022 23:32:21 GMT
You don’t think there are any lies? Now you've sequed to "lies"? You've changed the subject. I haven’t done anything. Just be specific. What’s hocus pocus?
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Post by Figgles on Jan 9, 2022 23:34:59 GMT
The common state is one form of consensus trance or another, and it's possible for someone to realize that this is the state that they're in. It's easy to see what "consensus trance" means in the extremes: war, for instance, and the scamdemic is a form of "information war", where we can see this happening from the outside, looking in as it happens to others. People caught up in cults that literally capture and exploit them are another. There are all matter of degrees of it, such as forming a distorted image of a political figure, for example, or simply how a parent might condition a child to succeed in life.
But is waking up to one dream, always just the start of another dream? This is a version of the existential question. It has no definitive answer of mind, for the mind applied deeply to it will answer both yes, and no. The conflict can be resolved in some specific contexts, but there is no generalized resolution. Nonduality becomes relevant in consideration of the existential question. There is no dreamer, and no dream. The existential dilemma does have a final resolution, but that resolution, is the great mystery.
The reason I ask, is because I attend regular Satsangs with Sailor Bob and I have the good fortune of 1:1s with him. He doesn’t entertain this stuff much at all. Not saying he doesn’t have an opinion but he told me he realised that it’s all suffering, so why go there? Just be present and whatever arises will arise as nobody is doing it anyhow. Yet here we have several of us who have seen ‘truth’ and yet continue to explore the story. I can’t pretend to look at it in ‘presence’ all the time. The story of ‘I’ and with it some subtle fears of a dystopian future, frustration of those not seeing it, a vaccine that might hurt people and a fear (which really is all love) for my girl’s future. When I remember my true nature all really is well. That's the important thing! I do understand why SB isn't interested in going there if for him the entirety of it is regarded to be 'all suffering.' I personally don't see it as that....I admit at times as far as stories go, it's somewhat of an 'edge of your seat..nail-biting, thriller adventure,' but it could only be 'all suffering,' if you fail to see the awakening that is underway.
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Andrew
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Post by Andrew on Jan 9, 2022 23:54:44 GMT
I only used the word because you did, it's not one I often use. So what on earth were you asking then? Sorry, kind of messing with you there.. I wasn't asking anything truth..the concept, means nothing really We do a lot of conceptualizing here ah...you were being a trickster! And I missed 30 seconds of Cobra Kai to reply to your message!
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Esponja
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Posts: 1,727
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Post by Esponja on Jan 10, 2022 0:04:37 GMT
I’d like to start a chat here: It’s still a struggle for me to understand the pull into this particular story when interest in most stories, beliefs, mind chatter is all but gone. When you think about it, is it any different to law of attraction, astrology or anything else going on in the world? Famine? Animal rights etc? Why are non-dualists pulled in here? It’s all seen to be ‘one’. No other. No out there, no in here. What does wakefulness truly mean? I think it depends what you mean by 'pulled in.' The moment suffering arises, wakefulness is not....the dream has sucked you in. There's an important difference between interest in the story vs. becoming completely sucked into the story. Being awake does not mean a cessation of interest in/engagment with the material world per se, but it does mean an absence of suffering for/because of that interest. What ceases is identification with the limited/bounded, which means, appearances of tyranny and such, even though they are not 'personally liked,' are couched in an overriding seeing of fundamental perfection. I might not like the fact that tyrants are trying to take over the world, but ultimately, I know it's all unfolding in absolute perfection. Whatever is presently appearing is perfectly what it is. Not a hair out of place. It's that seeing/realization of fundamental perfection that limits the depth of 'hold/pull' the story has. In other words, when the place of seeing shifts from the eyes of a limited SVP, to beyond, there's no longer the overlay of imagined separation/limitation heaped on top of the flow of naturally arising/ebbing feelings that then drag them down into suffering... absent that overlay (which is really noneother than the overlay of identification with a separately existent entity) there may still be feelings of excitement, concern, annoyance, not-liking, etc, but they arise and then easily flow on through...presence is always but a breath away should a fleeting sense of concern begin to deepen and take hold. The appearing character arises hand in hand with specific personality traits, likes and dislikes that very much continue on post SR. Interest goes where it goes and it cannot be predicted if or how interests will change after awakening. I know for me, my kids remain my strongest/deepest attachment...that I could somehow become so awake that I'd lose interest in their lives and well-being, is one I cannot imagine...there would have to be a monumental personality change for that to happen. What's happening right now in the world is something that most of us have never before experienced....We're observing a monumental shift in power.....to NOT have any interest in it seems rather odd to me, regardless of how enlightened one may be...I get the sense that some purposefully stay away from it, not due to lack of interest, but more due to fear of being pulled in too deep. For those that see/sense this is all ultimately leading to a better, more conscious and loving world, what's currently happening is more just a pathway to that...a necessary evil sort of thing that will ultimately pave the way to something much better. That said, I think it's normal at times to be aghast at times at the depth of the lies and tyranny....concerned somewhat about how far things might go in terms of affecting daily freedoms we've taken for granted....as well as excited about what's to come and how it will come about. I think you answered me below and I know you and I have discussed this outside of here too but I suppose personally there are times where I am triggered or feel a sense of fear. Am certainly not at peace when I entertain where it could be going but when I compare to many I see who believe in anything without question or those who I know to be depressed or convinced the v will kill them, I’m certainly not there either. I also know of ‘enlighted’ or self-realized folk who are fully vaccinated. I know quite a few. Those people sense that this is a power play but they don’t buy into much of the other stuff and I doubt they’d spend hours researching or watching videos about it. There’s many religious folk who are following this side of the story too, I’m curious about that. Is it revelations or not being in fear? Freedom over fear??
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