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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2017 1:17:38 GMT
I'm here because I have friends here. I was looking at the grass grow today while moving the sprinkler. Garden, too. Why are acute senses more desirable? The blind man analogy you offered up should explain it. It's kinda proof positive that the world can't be found in the brain. Are you aware of the fact that no MRI has ever found a part of the brain that lights up when you experience yourself? Yet, you somehow know that you have a self. Where do you exist? In the brain? Seems logical, as there is no such thing as experiencing oneself You are getting acute senses in expense of your thought process. That that is desirable, is your very personal matter. I've decided it's not worth it, and that's mine. I was watching the sun rise today, and I am no simple man. I enjoy thoughts and visuals pretty much equally. The question 'Where do you exist' is pretty much a non-question. In final analysis, I do not exist per se, there is limited awareness, there seems to be a limited body and a limited world, there seems to be finite suffering and finite enjoyment, and that's it. No 'I' is needed (have I become Andrew?). I dunno. Are you wanting to become Andrew? I don't discount thought. But I've learned the body is pretty intelligent. Have you ever asked your body when deciding whether or not to act, 'How do you feel about this? I do. I think I did quite a bit as a kid, too. Then I got lost in thought for quite a few years. Forgot about the body.... Maybe the body supports the mind? Which isn't a personal matter at all when the whole equation is correct. Why do you think there is limited awareness, body, and world? Sounds more like a series of choices to me.
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Post by Theodore on Jun 10, 2017 1:37:38 GMT
Seems logical, as there is no such thing as experiencing oneself You are getting acute senses in expense of your thought process. That that is desirable, is your very personal matter. I've decided it's not worth it, and that's mine. I was watching the sun rise today, and I am no simple man. I enjoy thoughts and visuals pretty much equally. The question 'Where do you exist' is pretty much a non-question. In final analysis, I do not exist per se, there is limited awareness, there seems to be a limited body and a limited world, there seems to be finite suffering and finite enjoyment, and that's it. No 'I' is needed (have I become Andrew?). I dunno. Are you wanting to become Andrew? I don't discount thought. But I've learned the body is pretty intelligent. Have you ever asked your body when deciding whether or not to act, 'How do you feel about this? I do. I think I did quite a bit as a kid, too. Then I got lost in thought for quite a few years. Forgot about the body.... Maybe the body supports the mind? Which isn't a personal matter at all when the whole equation is correct. Why do you think there is limited awareness, body, and world? Sounds more like a series of choices to me. Becoming Andrew was just a joke. Let's not distinguish between body and thought. Body is intelligent, also thought is intelligent, and taking into account both leads to decisions that... well, take both into account. Forgetting the body isn't that good, and forgetting thought is another kind of not-good as well. The body does support the mind, it's 'a healthy mind in a healthy body', as far as I've heard. It's a valid equation. Why do I think there is limited awareness, body, and world? My body is less than 6 feet tall, my world less than 1500 feet in diameter, my sensations very limited in scope, and in general my awareness comprises of very specific things. It's only the norm.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2017 2:08:44 GMT
I dunno. Are you wanting to become Andrew? I don't discount thought. But I've learned the body is pretty intelligent. Have you ever asked your body when deciding whether or not to act, 'How do you feel about this? I do. I think I did quite a bit as a kid, too. Then I got lost in thought for quite a few years. Forgot about the body.... Maybe the body supports the mind? Which isn't a personal matter at all when the whole equation is correct. Why do you think there is limited awareness, body, and world? Sounds more like a series of choices to me. Becoming Andrew was just a joke. Let's not distinguish between body and thought. Body is intelligent, also thought is intelligent, and taking into account both leads to decisions that... well, take both into account. Forgetting the body isn't that good, and forgetting thought is another kind of not-good as well. The body does support the mind, it's 'a healthy mind in a healthy body', as far as I've heard. It's a valid equation.Why do I think there is limited awareness, body, and world? My body is less than 6 feet tall, my world less than 1500 feet in diameter, my sensations very limited in scope, and in general my awareness comprises of very specific things. It's only the norm. I don't see how it can be a valid equation. A factor is missing from the equation... gonna check out Bill Maher..... have a good one
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Post by Theodore on Jun 10, 2017 11:41:44 GMT
Becoming Andrew was just a joke. Let's not distinguish between body and thought. Body is intelligent, also thought is intelligent, and taking into account both leads to decisions that... well, take both into account. Forgetting the body isn't that good, and forgetting thought is another kind of not-good as well. The body does support the mind, it's 'a healthy mind in a healthy body', as far as I've heard. It's a valid equation.Why do I think there is limited awareness, body, and world? My body is less than 6 feet tall, my world less than 1500 feet in diameter, my sensations very limited in scope, and in general my awareness comprises of very specific things. It's only the norm. I don't see how it can be a valid equation. A factor is missing from the equation... gonna check out Bill Maher..... have a good one Feel free to share what is missing.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2017 14:13:40 GMT
I don't see how it can be a valid equation. A factor is missing from the equation... gonna check out Bill Maher..... have a good one Feel free to share what is missing. Last night was more than enough. Thank you. I am feeling free this morning. The body is relaxed. Should be a fun day. Have a good one.
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Post by Figgles on Jun 10, 2017 21:40:46 GMT
The bolded is a pointer. Breath meditation accomplishes the same thing. When the breathing slows the mind follows. I don't think the mind's purpose is to slow down by effort. My efforts in meditation showed me that much. I would say, If meditation feels like an effort, then you are following some idea about a 'should,' instead of what actually interests you. If meditation just feels like one more 'chore-like' activity to add your list of 'to do's', then I agree, no point spending any time on it. If/when the interest to quiet mind becomes strong enough, folks engage in meditation. And when that happens, it doesn't feel like a chore and any sense of effort that might initially arise, is effort that is felt to be 'well spent.'
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Post by Figgles on Jun 10, 2017 21:46:20 GMT
I don't think the mind's purpose is to slow down by effort. My efforts in meditation showed me that much. How can watching the breath be an effort? When you watch tv is there effort? Yeah, that's the thing; "successful" watching of the breath is actually not effort-full at all....It only seems like an effort when it's not working so good, 'cause you are following a 'should' thought, that is not really backed with much interest....then you will have to 'try' to watch the breath...that said, it's been my own experience that even a mind that is initially somewhat resistant to the idea of watching breath, with a bit of success, quickly warms to the idea, thus, the interest grows. The benefits of a quieter mind imo, are priceless.
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Post by Figgles on Jun 10, 2017 21:50:01 GMT
How can watching the breath be an effort? When you watch tv is there effort? Yes, I'm getting tired when I watch too much. Of course, watching your breath is much effort, and it involves a huge opportunity cost. It could be useful for some people, but I bet it's an infinitesmal fraction of the ones who practice it. What is the huge 'opportunity cost' as you see it? As i see it, a mind that is not churning 100 miles per hour, is going to be far more able to see things of importance that leads to a better quality of experience.
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Post by Figgles on Jun 10, 2017 21:56:08 GMT
Yes, I'm getting tired when I watch too much. Of course, watching your breath is much effort, and it involves a huge opportunity cost. It could be useful for some people, but I bet it's an infinitesmal fraction of the ones who practice it. Yes, when I first started meditation the mind was running amok. There was much efforting. But that was then, and this is now. Now, throughout the day I simply watch the breath. Shifting to the witness is subtle. Effortless. If I had it to do all over again, I would still incorporate meditation. Yes, there is no doubt for me, that the practice of meditation does change the pattern of minding in ways that then become habitual. Thus, that which may have at one time, required an element of 'direction,' now just happens rather naturally.
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Post by Figgles on Jun 10, 2017 22:00:53 GMT
Yes, you became better at silencing the mind. That's very normal. It still involves a price to pay. I had acquired the ability to silence the mind and I was still miserable. Misery doesn't reside in the mind exclusively. In my view, when the mind is running amok, there is a good reason. The last thing I want to do is silence it. I disagree. "Misery" as I see it, does solely reside in minding about life. Absent any thought about 'my story,' there can be no sense of misery. That does not mean though that I vilify minding....It's just important to see it for what it is. There is only a price to pay if one loses something.....in becoming adept at quieting the mind at will, one does not lose the ability to engage thought, he just loses the propensity to get swept up and away in thought, without being consciously aware as to the fact of that happening. If mind is running amok, it's going to be very unlikely that I am able to adequately look into (let alone see) why it is doing so. In order for that kind of insight to happen, things gotta get at least a little more quiet.
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