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Post by Figgles on Oct 30, 2023 4:09:49 GMT
Exactly. Entirely "perceptional" does not equal "optional" as in, the seeker gets a volitonal choice in a matter....who the heck would actively choose suffering, anyway? Suffering is indeed, entirely 'relative' and of the perceivable/appearance/experiential realm, but that does not mean there is some kind of "optional" aspect to it where the seeker is concerned. Where there is an imagined SVP.....where there is seeking, there are the separation based ideas/senses in place, that provide the launch-pad of suffering. Plain and simply, an imagined SVP goes hand in hand with the potential for suffering. No SVP....nothing to give to suffering. (Suffering = the mind overlay of judgment heaped ontop of naturally arising feeling/emotion.....a sense of intolerability re: what would otherwise be a fleeting/ebbing/flowing, transient feeling of imminent resistance/discord.
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Post by Figgles on Nov 3, 2023 20:50:09 GMT
Many personal aspects of the experiential me character/person remain in SR. As such, likes, intents, preferences and also the flip side of that, dislikes, which means at times, those intent being thwarted or not coming to fruition as preferred/expected. In that, there are still mind's judgments....measuring what imminently is arising experientially against what was intended, and at times, behaviors and actions then that reflect that thwarting of intention coming to fruition. No big deal.
Surface judgments/criticisms regarding arising circumstance are not in any way incompatible with SR. It's only when there's a mind overlay added that says; This is abjectly, fundamenally wrong...or in other words, when the fundamental perfection of the very nature of personal experience to move up/down...to delight/disappoint, is itself judged to be bad/wrong/not as it should be.
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Post by Figgles on Nov 3, 2023 22:43:47 GMT
It's YOU who has raised the bar too high if it's your expectation that SR/being awake necessarily means a never-ending, enduring, perpetual state of blissful feelings.....a palpable feeling of "connection/unification" arising at all times.
Seeing through of separation/Oneness is not the equivalent of mentally connecting and unifying all appearances. There is no need to unify that which was never separate to begin with.
It's YOU who expects the SR to adhere to some sort of "bliss bunny state." There is a shift in state of being following SR, but it would be more apt to describe it as a surrender to all arising feelings/emotions that means an absence of judgment overlay upon whatever feeling arises, vs. the presence of one, singular, ongoing, perpetual, upper scale feeling/emotion.
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Post by Gopal on Nov 4, 2023 3:33:26 GMT
Exactly. Entirely "perceptional" does not equal "optional" as in, the seeker gets a volitonal choice in a matter....who the heck would actively choose suffering, anyway? Suffering is indeed, entirely 'relative' and of the perceivable/appearance/experiential realm, but that does not mean there is some kind of "optional" aspect to it where the seeker is concerned. Where there is an imagined SVP.....where there is seeking, there are the separation based ideas/senses in place, that provide the launch-pad of suffering. Plain and simply, an imagined SVP goes hand in hand with the potential for suffering. No SVP....nothing to give to suffering. (Suffering = the mind overlay of judgment heaped ontop of naturally arising feeling/emotion.....a sense of intolerability re: what would otherwise be a fleeting/ebbing/flowing, transient feeling of imminent resistance/discord. If it is optional, then no one would choose to suffer. Simple.
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Post by Figgles on Nov 4, 2023 4:15:23 GMT
Exactly. Entirely "perceptional" does not equal "optional" as in, the seeker gets a volitonal choice in a matter....who the heck would actively choose suffering, anyway? Suffering is indeed, entirely 'relative' and of the perceivable/appearance/experiential realm, but that does not mean there is some kind of "optional" aspect to it where the seeker is concerned. Where there is an imagined SVP.....where there is seeking, there are the separation based ideas/senses in place, that provide the launch-pad of suffering. Plain and simply, an imagined SVP goes hand in hand with the potential for suffering. No SVP....nothing to give to suffering. (Suffering = the mind overlay of judgment heaped ontop of naturally arising feeling/emotion.....a sense of intolerability re: what would otherwise be a fleeting/ebbing/flowing, transient feeling of imminent resistance/discord. If it is optional, then no one would choose to suffer. Simple. Yup. That's the simple version.
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Post by Figgles on Nov 7, 2023 17:55:42 GMT
Excellent description. "Its not non-involvement." Exactly. Why is it that seems to need repeat over and over...? It's of course because seeking mind erroneously equates non-attachment, absence of left impressions with an absence of caring an absence of involvement. And that's because for the seeker, where there IS involvement, hand in hand with that, is always left impressions. I like this way of talking about how experience is different post SR....it's not the easiest thing to explain by any means but I think this descriptor gets to the heart of it.
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Post by Figgles on Nov 8, 2023 18:37:08 GMT
If you had actual reference for the shift in locus seeing FROM, (seemingly) the limited/bounded person TO beyond/prior to, and thus, reference for that unobstructed "view" and the freedom that comes with it, i doubt you would be calling it "foolish."
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Post by Figgles on Nov 28, 2023 5:56:03 GMT
Suffering includes pain (emotional/physical), but pain does not necessarily include suffering.
Suffering is a mental overlay heaped ontop of an experience of pain, which absent that overlay, would just naturally, easily, arise and then ebb on through....no stickiness.
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Post by Figgles on Nov 28, 2023 20:51:50 GMT
Tenka and I have different definitions when we speak of "anger." I have a very specific definition I use when I use that term 'anger' in Truth-talk; As I continually mention, my use of the term "anger" = "blameful anger," where personal responsibility is assigned to people and circumstances that denote those to be 'fundamentally' bad/wrong/amiss.
It's a very important distinction I am making that still very much allows for the arising of surface negative judgments/feelings of sorrow, irritation, frustration....basically, feeling expressions of "dislike," that do NOT extend into fundamental judgment/assignation of wrongness, thus, which do not have imagined separation inherent to it.
Tenka believes that in SR there should be zero expressed feeling of "No/dislike." And that is of course a nonsense and indicative of a deep misconception of what 'liberation' actually is.
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Post by Figgles on Nov 28, 2023 20:56:07 GMT
There's nothing in what you said there that would have had me reading in 'volition is a real thing.' You've put that really well actually. Odd, you'd leap to that conclusion that i'd naturally 'go there.' I think perhaps it's YOU then who requires some calming?
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