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Post by Figgles on Jan 19, 2020 18:17:43 GMT
You are describing 'in the dream' insights, yes.
But 'realization' is a seeing that is fully beyond the dream. To see the dream FOR a dream, seeing has to be happening from 'beyond/prior to' the dream.
Intuition, while it seems to be 'transcendent' of what most would call 'normal senses,' is also still within the dream. Realization is beyond all perceivable senses, including intuitive knowledge about dream content.
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Post by Figgles on Jan 19, 2020 19:42:40 GMT
The mere thought of no separate entity does not = an imagined separate entity. If one is identified with 'a something that thinks' then indeed, a separate entity is being imagined into the equation, but that was not inherent in the post you responded to.
Of course the thought of such is not the realization itself, but to talk about this stuff, we must to some degree, think about/conceptualize it.
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Enigma
Super Duper Senior Member
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Post by Enigma on Jan 19, 2020 22:56:10 GMT
The actual seeing through/loss/absence of realization is not a feeling, visceral or otherwise. Feelings/viscerally sensed components that seem to be intertwined with realization are 'perceivables' that are indicative of mind's involvement and should not be conflated with the loss/seeing through that is the hallmark of realization. Clearly it is not so easy after all! The evidence of that lies in your and ZD's insistence that some realizations add knowledge rather than result in a loss/seeing through/absence of knowledge. It's all too common for experiential content to be mistaken for realization. I'd say the serious (but honest) mistake you and ZD are making in taking the content of your CC to arrive at absolute Truth/absolute knowing has been made by most seekers who have had 'powerful cosmic experiences.' Therein lies the problem with seekers having those kinds of experiences. Once you're truly awake, you are free to enjoy cosmic/Kensho experiences til the cows come home, without any danger at all of mistaking their content for Truth. Again, you used to know this and be able to talk about it quite well. (see below) I wonder, were you just parroting what you'd heard others say or did you have actual reference for what you were talking about then? Yeah, how can Reefs know the difference between realization and experience, and then forget?
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Post by Figgles on Jan 19, 2020 23:50:02 GMT
The actual seeing through/loss/absence of realization is not a feeling, visceral or otherwise. Feelings/viscerally sensed components that seem to be intertwined with realization are 'perceivables' that are indicative of mind's involvement and should not be conflated with the loss/seeing through that is the hallmark of realization. Clearly it is not so easy after all! The evidence of that lies in your and ZD's insistence that some realizations add knowledge rather than result in a loss/seeing through/absence of knowledge. It's all too common for experiential content to be mistaken for realization. I'd say the serious (but honest) mistake you and ZD are making in taking the content of your CC to arrive at absolute Truth/absolute knowing has been made by most seekers who have had 'powerful cosmic experiences.' Therein lies the problem with seekers having those kinds of experiences. Once you're truly awake, you are free to enjoy cosmic/Kensho experiences til the cows come home, without any danger at all of mistaking their content for Truth. Again, you used to know this and be able to talk about it quite well. (see below) I wonder, were you just parroting what you'd heard others say or did you have actual reference for what you were talking about then? Yeah, how can Reefs know the difference between realization and experience, and then forget? It's as though the 'awesome-ness' of the CC/Kensho experience knocked it out of him.
And of course, that shoe that flew off his foot...? (love that it did, lol)....."it's alive Egor"!!!!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2020 5:52:38 GMT
yes, is it not? Exactly, it's a good catch. Infact I did not observe this so far. But now it becomes clear. I always wonder, why does it creates what I already found and every time it confirms it to me. So it seems like Belief creates the reality, eh? Then the next question comes like, Can I create anything just by believing? It is not possible because as you said in your reply, I can't believe something which is not supported to me by evidence. Infact It's not resistance now in my life, because I am in the rollercoaster of searching and finding the answer. I strongly believe that searching and finding the answer mutually defines each other and it moves on and on. I always wonder, even after I find this truth, why it still persist, May be now it comes to the clarity as to why. Can you explain me more about this? I'll leave E to answer your specific questions within that post, but I want to address your sig line; Gopal: "Fantasizing the beautiful future is what primarily creates the problem in our present life." I would not say that fantasizing/imagining a beautiful future necessarily creates a problem in our present life. And I'd say it's far more likely that if one is deeply resisting his present circumstances,he is not imagining a beautiful future at all, but rather, is living in fear that what currently presents, will continue, and thus, he is desiring for a better future, but not really expecting it. I'd say if someone is very unhappy with their present, it's rare to fantasize a beautiful future. There is 'wanting' for a better a future, sure, but for most, it's tough to imagine things changing from what they are now standing in resistance to, to something 'beautiful.' If they truly were focused upon 'beauty' even though it's projected to an imagined future, here and now, they'd be experiencing beauty. A focus upon beauty is after all, a present focus upon, and thus, an experience of, beauty, right? That's not the kind of imagination I am talking about. I am talking about a strong expectation to change into a beautiful future.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2020 5:53:43 GMT
I will get back to this tomorrow morning. After you've changed your sig? Just kidding G.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2020 6:00:48 GMT
So my belief that "resisting persists" is the negative focus? What I am seeing now is, I clearly see something as to how creation unfolds, and you say now that this seeing becomes the belief, and this belief starts to reinforce the reality again and again and I think you are perfectly correct here,because this is the way it's happening for me. But I don't know what to do now! How do I drop off all my beliefs, I don't have any clue.And you said to me expectation and beliefs are the two things stabilize the one probable line from infinite possibility before. And this is the way we create reality for ourselves, If so, when you said "They're not part of your essence, they are not the truth of your Being and they're not part of the force of creation as these are all one. " you meant to say there is some other line which is getting unfolded when your essence tend to express itself(in the absence of your beliefs)? Sure, your beliefs are the direct result of your experience and your understanding (clarity), right? So those will need to change. You're realized clarity will result in change if it is genuine. That's the reason that clarity is always what I focus on in discussions here. Experimentation is a good way to make use of that clarity to change your experience, further reinforcing your new belief. That's how I learned to do energy work and healing. More or less now you came to the point what I explained few months back. I told you my searching and answer finding goes on and on in an rollercoaster. Once the rollercoaster is over, it would inform you what I have already found, So this answer is being created now which you would like to name as belief reinforce the reality. This is the one thing I did not see it clearly so far so I agree with you. I always wonder as to how what I find clearly is reaffirmed again and again in my reality, may be it's due to belief that creates the reality. IF so, my clear seeing becomes the new belief for me and this new belief is reinforcing my reality again and again. But you did not tell me from the bolded line what I can do or consider or what you explained embrace it joyfully.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2020 6:03:29 GMT
So my belief that "resisting persists" is the negative focus? What I am seeing now is, I clearly see something as to how creation unfolds, and you say now that this seeing becomes the belief, and this belief starts to reinforce the reality again and again and I think you are perfectly correct here,because this is the way it's happening for me. But I don't know what to do now! How do I drop off all my beliefs, I don't have any clue. And you said to me expectation and beliefs are the two things stabilize the one probable line from infinite possibility before. And this is the way we create reality for ourselves, If so, when you said "They're not part of your essence, they are not the truth of your Being and they're not part of the force of creation as these are all one. " you meant to say there is some other line which is getting unfolded when your essence tend to express itself(in the absence of your beliefs)? When I said 'They're not part of your essence' I wasn't referring to expectation and belief. I was referring to negative feelings of fear, anger, resentment, guilt, etc. The force of creation that you want to use knows nothing of these illusory created feelings. We can't even say we're using the force of creation to create those feelings, we're just misaligning with creation as it is, blocking it's true expression. Yes, that's very clear now. Yes, but that's another line of creation which is not created by your belief, right? May be better to say 'Self now started to express itself'.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2020 6:04:59 GMT
When I said 'They're not part of your essence' I wasn't referring to expectation and belief. I was referring to negative feelings of fear, anger, resentment, guilt, etc. The force of creation that you want to use knows nothing of these illusory created feelings. We can't even say we're using the force of creation to create those feelings, we're just misaligning with creation as it is, blocking it's true expression.Not sure where you're coming from with this, but in the absence of belief, creation is a reflection of what you fundamentally are. Observe nature undisturbed by man. There is beauty, wonder, integration, diversity, life loving itself in every possible expression. Yes! Metaphorically speaking, those negative feelings, like the dark in a darkened room, like a shadow, are indicative of the absence of the light....indicative of the obscuring of/absence of clarity. To be more precise, he is saying, when we are not creating our reality through our belief, Self is creating through you.
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Enigma
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Post by Enigma on Jan 20, 2020 14:17:32 GMT
Sure, your beliefs are the direct result of your experience and your understanding (clarity), right? So those will need to change. You're realized clarity will result in change if it is genuine. That's the reason that clarity is always what I focus on in discussions here. Experimentation is a good way to make use of that clarity to change your experience, further reinforcing your new belief. That's how I learned to do energy work and healing. More or less now you came to the point what I explained few months back. I told you my searching and answer finding goes on and on in an rollercoaster. Once the rollercoaster is over, it would inform you what I have already found, So this answer is being created now which you would like to name as belief reinforce the reality. This is the one thing I did not see it clearly so far so I agree with you. I always wonder as to how what I find clearly is reaffirmed again and again in my reality, may be it's due to belief that creates the reality. IF so, my clear seeing becomes the new belief for me and this new belief is reinforcing my reality again and again. But you did not tell me from the bolded line what I can do or consider or what you explained embrace it joyfully. It's easy to embrace what you want, joyfully. Why would you not?
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