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Post by Figgles on Jan 18, 2020 20:22:23 GMT
I'll leave E to answer your specific questions within that post, but I want to address your sig line; Gopal: "Fantasizing the beautiful future is what primarily creates the problem in our present life." I would not say that fantasizing/imagining a beautiful future necessarily creates a problem in our present life. And I'd say it's far more likely that if one is deeply resisting his present circumstances,he is not imagining a beautiful future at all, but rather, is living in fear that what currently presents, will continue, and thus, he is desiring for a better future, but not really expecting it. I'd say if someone is very unhappy with their present, it's rare to fantasize a beautiful future. There is 'wanting' for a better a future, sure, but for most, it's tough to imagine things changing from what they are now standing in resistance to, to something 'beautiful.' If they truly were focused upon 'beauty' even though it's projected to an imagined future, here and now, they'd be experiencing beauty. A focus upon beauty is after all, a present focus upon, and thus, an experience of, beauty, right? Yes, well said. Re. the underlined, you're right that it's hard to focus on beauty when what one see in his life is ugliness, which is why I suggested to Gopal that it would require a change of being to begin to align with WHAT IS instead of what isn't, and this change is going to require clarity. The clarity will reference, directly or indirectly, the illusions being created by mind that hold the undesirable present in place. Most excellently put. Do you think the clarity might also reference the mind-blowing CC one had the night before where he experienced a ride on a conscious, alive, flying magic carpet?
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Post by Figgles on Jan 18, 2020 20:29:10 GMT
So my belief that "resisting persists" is the negative focus? What I am seeing now is, I clearly see something as to how creation unfolds, and you say now that this seeing becomes the belief, and this belief starts to reinforce the reality again and again and I think you are perfectly correct here,because this is the way it's happening for me. But I don't know what to do now! How do I drop off all my beliefs, I don't have any clue. And you said to me expectation and beliefs are the two things stabilize the one probable line from infinite possibility before. And this is the way we create reality for ourselves, If so, when you said "They're not part of your essence, they are not the truth of your Being and they're not part of the force of creation as these are all one. " you meant to say there is some other line which is getting unfolded when your essence tend to express itself(in the absence of your beliefs)? When I said 'They're not part of your essence' I wasn't referring to expectation and belief. I was referring to negative feelings of fear, anger, resentment, guilt, etc. The force of creation that you want to use knows nothing of these illusory created feelings. We can't even say we're using the force of creation to create those feelings, we're just misaligning with creation as it is, blocking it's true expression.Not sure where you're coming from with this, but in the absence of belief, creation is a reflection of what you fundamentally are. Observe nature undisturbed by man. There is beauty, wonder, integration, diversity, life loving itself in every possible expression.Yes! Metaphorically speaking, those negative feelings, like the dark in a darkened room, like a shadow, are indicative of the absence of the light....indicative of the obscuring of/absence of clarity.
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Enigma
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 13,969
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Post by Enigma on Jan 19, 2020 16:10:40 GMT
Yes, well said. Re. the underlined, you're right that it's hard to focus on beauty when what one see in his life is ugliness, which is why I suggested to Gopal that it would require a change of being to begin to align with WHAT IS instead of what isn't, and this change is going to require clarity. The clarity will reference, directly or indirectly, the illusions being created by mind that hold the undesirable present in place. Most excellently put. Do you think the clarity might also reference the mind-blowing CC one had the night before where he experienced a ride on a conscious, alive, flying magic carpet?
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Enigma
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 13,969
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Post by Enigma on Jan 19, 2020 16:26:31 GMT
When I said 'They're not part of your essence' I wasn't referring to expectation and belief. I was referring to negative feelings of fear, anger, resentment, guilt, etc. The force of creation that you want to use knows nothing of these illusory created feelings. We can't even say we're using the force of creation to create those feelings, we're just misaligning with creation as it is, blocking it's true expression.Not sure where you're coming from with this, but in the absence of belief, creation is a reflection of what you fundamentally are. Observe nature undisturbed by man. There is beauty, wonder, integration, diversity, life loving itself in every possible expression. Yes! Metaphorically speaking, those negative feelings, like the dark in a darkened room, like a shadow, are indicative of the absence of the light....indicative of the obscuring of/absence of clarity. Eggzakly. It's a good metaphor. It's also a good answer to the misconceived question, 'Why does God let bad things happen to good people?' God doesn't even know you were bad (Unless he checks with Santa). You just stepped out of the light and into the shadows, so you're no longer a part of God's plan for you. Hey, we've got the beginnings of an old fashion revival meetin.
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Post by Figgles on Jan 19, 2020 17:27:58 GMT
Yes! Metaphorically speaking, those negative feelings, like the dark in a darkened room, like a shadow, are indicative of the absence of the light....indicative of the obscuring of/absence of clarity. Eggzakly. It's a good metaphor. It's also a good answer to the misconceived question, 'Why does God let bad things happen to good people?' God doesn't even know you were bad (Unless he checks with Santa). You just stepped out of the light and into the shadows, so you're no longer a part of God's plan for you. Hey, we've got the beginnings of an old fashion revival meetin.
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Post by Figgles on Jan 19, 2020 17:40:42 GMT
You are asking the perfect question actually of ZD because for him, phenomenal perceptions are what comprise his 'realizations.'
Whereas actual 'realizations' are beyond visual sight, beyond physical hearing, or anything sensed with bodily senses. When it said it's been 'seen' that there is no separation, that is not a visual seeing with eyes, but rather, the seeing/realization that separation has only ever been an illusion. A blind/deaf man is just as capable of that realization as a sighted/hearing man.
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Post by Figgles on Jan 19, 2020 17:47:56 GMT
A true realization sees beyond all 'perceivables.' There is no-thing at all that appears, or that is added to the bank of material knowledge in the seeing through of separation. The absence of separation is not 'a perceivable.'
It's not til mind gets a hold of that absence/realization, and tries to talk about it, put it into words that we then have 'a perceivable.'
This is really important to see in terms of the whole argument about the difference between a mystical/cosmic experience vs. a realization. Cosmic experiences are all about 'perceivables.' Realizations 'see through' perceivables...put them in their place. (ideas, erroneous or otherwise, fall under the umbrella of 'perceivables').
Niz: "all perceivables are stains."
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Post by Figgles on Jan 19, 2020 17:53:50 GMT
The question is though, have you seen past all of that...? Have you seen that communications itself, the 'me' character, the 'other' character, the senses involved in communication, intuition included, any-thing at all that arises as a perceivable, are appearance only and in no way convey absolute Truth?
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Post by Figgles on Jan 19, 2020 18:09:22 GMT
The actual seeing through/loss/absence of realization is not a feeling, visceral or otherwise. Feelings/viscerally sensed components that seem to be intertwined with realization are 'perceivables' that are indicative of mind's involvement and should not be conflated with the loss/seeing through that is the hallmark of realization.
Clearly it is not so easy after all! The evidence of that lies in your and ZD's insistence that some realizations add knowledge rather than result in a loss/seeing through/absence of knowledge.
It's all too common for experiential content to be mistaken for realization. I'd say the serious (but honest) mistake you and ZD are making in taking the content of your CC to arrive at absolute Truth/absolute knowing has been made by most seekers who have had 'powerful cosmic experiences.' Therein lies the problem with seekers having those kinds of experiences. Once you're truly awake, you are free to enjoy cosmic/Kensho experiences til the cows come home, without any danger at all of mistaking their content for Truth.
Again, you used to know this and be able to talk about it quite well. (see below) I wonder, were you just parroting what you'd heard others say or did you have actual reference for what you were talking about then?
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Post by Figgles on Jan 19, 2020 18:10:35 GMT
Nice.
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