Enigma
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Posts: 13,969
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Post by Enigma on May 19, 2019 6:35:57 GMT
He's not talking about being aware, he's talking about the content of awareness. I think you have forgotten all the past conversations from gopal about perceiving. For Gopal there is no such thing as awareness without perceiving. For Gopal that is awareness as the archive will show. Never mind.
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Enigma
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Post by Enigma on May 19, 2019 6:39:21 GMT
What needs to happen first is that an observer position is permanently taken such that one is always observing the mind and body. (A position on the river bank rather than in the river) From that position, it's relatively easy to become aware of what mind is doing on an unconscious level. One understands one's own motivations and fears and mind games. The result is that one lives consciously, with integrity and self honesty and sincerity. From that position as observer one is distanced from mind and it's machinations, and a turning toward Self in realization is far more likely. In a sense this may be called transcending mind and abiding in source, but I very much doubt that I would have said that as it would be a misdirection and just add confusion. So you are talking about the practice of becoming the witnessing observer. It is simply not possible to do that and make it permanent as anyone can easily demonstrate within a few seconds Thoughts will always spontaneously arise and distract you away from that pure observing position. What you can do though is dip in and out of that position and that is what is done in practice. But this is where I have to profoundly disagree with you. Do you not see that if you put yourself in the position of the observer and then you speak about the observer understanding one's motivations and fears and what mind is doing on an unconscious level, that you are no longer the observer. You are now doing a lot of thinking about your motivations. There is no observer distancing himself from the mind while at the same time understanding motivations. This is a complete contradiction. This is not correct practice. Transcending mind means doing just that, not thinking about one's motivations or fears but becoming completely absorbed in silence, the infinite silence of awareness, pure awareness. and then plunging back into activity and bringing the value of that silence back into activity to integrate that infinite value into the limited value of experience in the field of action. That my friend is true practice which will yield meaningful and practical results. You must have had a lot of headaches trying to make your observer permanent. That's why I'm not really talking about transcending mind. I'm talking about becoming conscious. Yes, a permanent position as observer, not some non-thinking witness.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2019 6:40:21 GMT
So you are talking about the practice of becoming the witnessing observer. It is simply not possible to do that and make it permanent as anyone can easily demonstrate within a few seconds Thoughts will always spontaneously arise and distract you away from that pure observing position. What you can do though is dip in and out of that position and that is what is done in practice. But this is where I have to profoundly disagree with you. Do you not see that if you put yourself in the position of the observer and then you speak about the observer understanding one's motivations and fears and what mind is doing on an unconscious level, that you are no longer the observer. You are now doing a lot of thinking about your motivations. There is no observer distancing himself from the mind while at the same time understanding motivations. This is a complete contradiction. This is not correct practice. Transcending mind means doing just that, not thinking about one's motivations or fears but becoming completely absorbed in silence, the infinite silence of awareness, pure awareness. and then plunging back into activity and bringing the value of that silence back into activity to integrate that infinite value into the limited value of experience in the field of action. That my friend is true practice which will yield meaningful and practical results. You must have had a lot of headaches trying to make your observer permanent. That's why I'm not really talking about transcending mind. I'm talking about becoming conscious. Meaningless conceptual speak as usual.
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Enigma
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 13,969
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Post by Enigma on May 19, 2019 6:46:39 GMT
That's why I'm not really talking about transcending mind. I'm talking about becoming conscious. Meaningless conceptual speak as usual. At least you know you don't understand what I mean by becoming conscious. To transcend mind you must know mind. I'm guessing the mind you think you've transcended throws you a lot of curve balls.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2019 6:55:02 GMT
Meaningless conceptual speak as usual. At least you know you don't understand what I mean by becoming conscious. To transcend mind you must know mind. I'm guessing the mind you think you've transcended throws you a lot of curve balls. Please stop trying to pretend you know anything about this subject.
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muttley
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Post by muttley on May 19, 2019 7:15:46 GMT
At least you know you don't understand what I mean by becoming conscious. To transcend mind you must know mind. I'm guessing the mind you think you've transcended throws you a lot of curve balls. Please stop trying to pretend you know anything about this subject. Satch. You ok man?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2019 7:18:16 GMT
Please stop trying to pretend you know anything about this subject. Satch. You ok man? Yeah I'm feeling really good thanks. I'm just reminded of the fact that you know more about meditation than enigma does.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2019 17:34:41 GMT
You must be mistaken for something. In my experience mind is extremely tricky. It would hide under something which we usually miss out. One illusion goes another one comes but we are not even aware of the truth that we are in another illusion now. According to me, if mind is forming any conclusion in our experience as to why it's happening this way, that too is the problem I see. We are always aware. You told me a long time ago that you are a perceiver. Have you forgotten? Everything single thought and every single perception is the KNOWING in my awareness. No doubt. But what's illusion? when you mistake something for something else. That's illusion is in our mind. MIND creates reality.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2019 17:42:15 GMT
Yes, but I know consciousness and it's creative way so I know where you go wrong. You don't know reality is being imagined every moment. How can you go wrong by being conscious? I am not saying you are going wrong by becoming conscious. But meditation is started out of illusion that you can attain something by getting rid of your thoughts. But the problem is, you is not the creator of those thoughts which are arising, you are just experiencing those thoughts. So when you sit in the meditation, the one who creates the thoughts are actually creating the perception which are the perceptions of the back side of your eyelid. Why would one who creates the reality has to create such a thought to realize what's truth? I did not get the point.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2019 17:46:58 GMT
I don't know what lolly has described. Meditation is to transcend mind and abide in the source which is non-dual awareness. That's how you become conscious because that's what you mean by it. I asked you to define what is becoming conscious a long time ago and you defined it for me as being established in awareness or knowing you are awareness so we were clear on that. However if you have since changed your mind and becoming conscious means something else then please tell me what it means and how you become conscious. Please give me as much detail as possible as to how one becomes conscious. What I have described is becoming conscious with this practice. However today you seem to think that this practice has something to do with control and a split mind so it cannot be what you told me in the past about becoming conscious. You need to clear up this confusion and tell me all you know about becoming conscious What needs to happen first is that an observer position is permanently taken such that one is always observing the mind and body. (A position on the river bank rather than in the river) From that position, it's relatively easy to become aware of what mind is doing on an unconscious level. One understands one's own motivations and fears and mind games. The result is that one lives consciously, with integrity and self honesty and sincerity. From that position as observer one is distanced from mind and it's machinations, and a turning toward Self in realization is far more likely. In a sense this may be called transcending mind and abiding in source, but I very much doubt that I would have said that as it would be a misdirection and just add confusion. Placing yourself into the witnessing mode as you explained above is also illusion. The small you came into the being already.
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