Post by Figgles on Dec 17, 2018 20:08:03 GMT
I figured I'd create a new thread on this specific topic as I think through all the discourse on 'not knowing vs. knowing' regarding appearances/experience, we've arrived at an important point.
Reefs for one, insists that those of us who say we don't/can't know are demonstrating walk/talk issues. As he sees it, if we truly see the entirety of the realm of appearance as empty of Truth, then it makes no sense whatsoever that we continue to care about that which appears. If am grasping what ZD has been saying, he too seems to conflate specific knowings with an overall reverence for life/This.
He's made it quite clear that he equates the absence of certain knowledge about 'This', with an absence of awe and reverence for 'This'.
Andrew has gone even further...and has suggested that if I do not know for certain that my husband is actually experiencing, then I have 'no right' to engage him as though he is.
Inherent in their assertions, they reveal that that their own interest, caring/kindness, benevolent bent, hinges upon certain specific knowledge 'about' what is appearing. It seems they cannot fathom that one could still 'care' and thus behave in caring ways, absent that specific knowledge.
The flawed premise behind all of that is that reverence, caring, a benevolent bent, is caused by/conditional upon material knowledge.
Indeed there are cases where it is, but there is an even deeper reverence, caring that arises that is without condition. And I'm guessing this group has no reference for that whatsoever.
If/when one sees the inherent emptiness of Truth re: all appearances and he then turns around to declare that he no longer has interest caring at all in the story/dream because he has seen that, all that's happened is that mind got involved and conceptualized that 'emptiness' and then judged what is appearing to be 'not worthy' of care.
The reverence for the totality of "This" that arises absent condition does not involve mind/mental judgements. Whereas for those whose reverence, caring, interest is conditional upon knowing stuff about "This" obviously, mind is very much involved in that.
So long as knowing stuff is necessary for Love to flow, there is without a doubt, a 'person' involved.
Reefs for one, insists that those of us who say we don't/can't know are demonstrating walk/talk issues. As he sees it, if we truly see the entirety of the realm of appearance as empty of Truth, then it makes no sense whatsoever that we continue to care about that which appears. If am grasping what ZD has been saying, he too seems to conflate specific knowings with an overall reverence for life/This.
He's made it quite clear that he equates the absence of certain knowledge about 'This', with an absence of awe and reverence for 'This'.
Andrew has gone even further...and has suggested that if I do not know for certain that my husband is actually experiencing, then I have 'no right' to engage him as though he is.
Inherent in their assertions, they reveal that that their own interest, caring/kindness, benevolent bent, hinges upon certain specific knowledge 'about' what is appearing. It seems they cannot fathom that one could still 'care' and thus behave in caring ways, absent that specific knowledge.
The flawed premise behind all of that is that reverence, caring, a benevolent bent, is caused by/conditional upon material knowledge.
Indeed there are cases where it is, but there is an even deeper reverence, caring that arises that is without condition. And I'm guessing this group has no reference for that whatsoever.
If/when one sees the inherent emptiness of Truth re: all appearances and he then turns around to declare that he no longer has interest caring at all in the story/dream because he has seen that, all that's happened is that mind got involved and conceptualized that 'emptiness' and then judged what is appearing to be 'not worthy' of care.
The reverence for the totality of "This" that arises absent condition does not involve mind/mental judgements. Whereas for those whose reverence, caring, interest is conditional upon knowing stuff about "This" obviously, mind is very much involved in that.
So long as knowing stuff is necessary for Love to flow, there is without a doubt, a 'person' involved.
