Post by Figgles on Nov 26, 2018 17:07:27 GMT
Is there actually a realization whereby Self is known to have a specific, identifiable quality/property that can be described with words?
As I see it, this is the question that needs to be addressed when folks claim that via a Kensho experience, they came away with the "realization" that all 'things' arising within experience, are 'alive, vibrant, conscious, experiencing, perceiving,'...and that they know this because, it was seen/realized that Self has those attributes.
There are many problems with this claim, the main one being that "Self" is but a pointer and to ascribe 'attribute' of any kind to a pointer, is to render it a concept/object/thing. Self is not a thing, not a concept, not an object. "It" is without attribute. The realization that all is Self does not come with 'knowledge' about Self. There is no-thing to know 'about' Self. Self realization is entirely "non-conceputal," which means we do not come away knowing stuff about Self...we do not come away knowing about the attributes of Self. There is no-thing TO know.
Indeed, post SR, one might describe 'the way' he now 'experiences' life in it's totality, the way experience in it's totality Is now that it's clearly seen that nothing is separate, that there is but one singular movement, all is Self, all is Awareness/Consciousness. And he might indeed describe that as 'it's all alive, vibrant, intelligent, seamless, unified, etc.'. Those words though, should be understood to be mere descriptors of the overall experience and not the result of an actual "Truth realization" ABOUT Self.
What these folks are claiming is that via a realization that Self has very specific attributes that can be described in common terms, they thereby have also realized that the entire realm of experience (which is of course, not separate from Self, IS Self) also has those attributes that Self was realized to have. They therefore know that every expression, every thing from a sock to a rock to a tree, to a person, Is known for certain to be alive, conscious, perceiving, experiencing.
Actual Truth realizations do not ascribe attribute to experiential content. Rather, Truth realization sees all attribute itself as arising content, it too, empty and devoid of Truthiness.
As I see it, this is the question that needs to be addressed when folks claim that via a Kensho experience, they came away with the "realization" that all 'things' arising within experience, are 'alive, vibrant, conscious, experiencing, perceiving,'...and that they know this because, it was seen/realized that Self has those attributes.
There are many problems with this claim, the main one being that "Self" is but a pointer and to ascribe 'attribute' of any kind to a pointer, is to render it a concept/object/thing. Self is not a thing, not a concept, not an object. "It" is without attribute. The realization that all is Self does not come with 'knowledge' about Self. There is no-thing to know 'about' Self. Self realization is entirely "non-conceputal," which means we do not come away knowing stuff about Self...we do not come away knowing about the attributes of Self. There is no-thing TO know.
Indeed, post SR, one might describe 'the way' he now 'experiences' life in it's totality, the way experience in it's totality Is now that it's clearly seen that nothing is separate, that there is but one singular movement, all is Self, all is Awareness/Consciousness. And he might indeed describe that as 'it's all alive, vibrant, intelligent, seamless, unified, etc.'. Those words though, should be understood to be mere descriptors of the overall experience and not the result of an actual "Truth realization" ABOUT Self.
What these folks are claiming is that via a realization that Self has very specific attributes that can be described in common terms, they thereby have also realized that the entire realm of experience (which is of course, not separate from Self, IS Self) also has those attributes that Self was realized to have. They therefore know that every expression, every thing from a sock to a rock to a tree, to a person, Is known for certain to be alive, conscious, perceiving, experiencing.
Actual Truth realizations do not ascribe attribute to experiential content. Rather, Truth realization sees all attribute itself as arising content, it too, empty and devoid of Truthiness.
