Post by Figgles on Nov 13, 2018 16:31:19 GMT
"Coming full circle" (3rd. mountain position in the "mountain metaphor"...."once again, there IS a mountain") happens naturally so long as mind does not enter into the realization of 'no mountain.' If/when it does, we get folks denying/eschewing the experiential (as in Jeff Fosters Brown Bear videos) as well as folks believing that in the re-engagement with mountain, once again, seeing, acknowledging that the mountain IS, they now possess new material knowledge 'about' the mountain (such as it possess such and such a quality/property).
When mind does not enter into the equation, the realization of 'no mountain' naturally moves to encompass 'once again, there is a mountain' but without the previous misconception of 1st mountain position, that the mountain had it's own independent existence, apart from Being.
The movement is from 1st mountain, where the totality of experiential content, all that appears is taken to stand on it's own...to have existence in it's own right.... In realizing there is no separation, that the mountain appears within Being and has no independent existence of it's own, absent mind's involvement, that realization will naturally extend to and encompass third position (there IS a mountain), which means thingness continues to be acknowledged and engaged with with full understanding that it's an arising within Being.
The "kensho club" in insisting that all arising thingness has the 'qualities' of that which is ineffable and can only be pointed to, are demonstrating so perfectly what happens when mind gets involved in 'realization.' That's all their position is; Mind's attempt to make sense out of the absence left in the wake of realization.
They have included material knowledge about the mountain in their version of coming full circle, which really means, they've headed back to 1st mountain position. They are calling that 'material knowledge' realization, but it's not. realizations do not leave you knowing stuff about stuff, rather, they have you seeing through the substance of stuff.
When mind does not enter into the equation, the realization of 'no mountain' naturally moves to encompass 'once again, there is a mountain' but without the previous misconception of 1st mountain position, that the mountain had it's own independent existence, apart from Being.
The movement is from 1st mountain, where the totality of experiential content, all that appears is taken to stand on it's own...to have existence in it's own right.... In realizing there is no separation, that the mountain appears within Being and has no independent existence of it's own, absent mind's involvement, that realization will naturally extend to and encompass third position (there IS a mountain), which means thingness continues to be acknowledged and engaged with with full understanding that it's an arising within Being.
The "kensho club" in insisting that all arising thingness has the 'qualities' of that which is ineffable and can only be pointed to, are demonstrating so perfectly what happens when mind gets involved in 'realization.' That's all their position is; Mind's attempt to make sense out of the absence left in the wake of realization.
They have included material knowledge about the mountain in their version of coming full circle, which really means, they've headed back to 1st mountain position. They are calling that 'material knowledge' realization, but it's not. realizations do not leave you knowing stuff about stuff, rather, they have you seeing through the substance of stuff.