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Post by Figgles on Aug 24, 2018 23:07:12 GMT
Oh, there most certainly was distortion on your part, and in denying that you're just using your rug-broom again. And no, I wasn't flat out "wrong" about how you've previously characterized your shift in seeing. When I challenged you about your position on satchie's idea of getting lost in the movie, you wrote this: "It's a terminology/word issue. My word usage has indeed changed, the general understandings, have not." Yeah, well, the understanding with regards to the conversation of 'getting lost in the movie/seeing it's a movie, etc' haven't changed hugely if at all... & overall, The more general realizations haven't changed. Not at all. His pointing as I see it has stayed the same. In the past I viewed what I deeemed to be his uncompromising way of talking about this stuff, as being founded upon stubborness vs. clarity. I now see things differently. I would still make that same argument...perhaps would refine some of the language as I did so. I still would maintain that absent personal judgements, Tolle and Manson are in fact, equal....that it's only personal judgements that have us seeing one as good the other as bad. That does not though mean that a murderer IS a rock. |
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muttley
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 4,394
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Post by muttley on Aug 24, 2018 23:28:27 GMT
Oh, there most certainly was distortion on your part, and in denying that you're just using your rug-broom again. And no, I wasn't flat out "wrong" about how you've previously characterized your shift in seeing. When I challenged you about your position on satchie's idea of getting lost in the movie, you wrote this: "It's a terminology/word issue. My word usage has indeed changed, the general understandings, have not." Yeah, well, the understanding with regards to the conversation of 'getting lost in the movie/seeing it's a movie, etc' haven't changed hugely if at all... & overall, The more general realizations haven't changed. Not at all. His pointing as I see it has stayed the same. In the past I viewed what I deeemed to be his uncompromising way of talking about this stuff, as being founded upon stubborness vs. clarity. I now see things differently. I would still make that same argument...perhaps would refine some of the language as I did so. I still would maintain that absent personal judgements, Tolle and Manson are in fact, equal....that it's only personal judgements that have us seeing one as good the other as bad. That does not though mean that a murderer IS a rock. Right, so now you're back to where you were in claiming that what you were "seeing not so clearly" before was limited, but over time, as more and more of these recurring dialogs recur, you'll find yourself on exactly the opposite side you were before. Noone disagreed with the idea of value judgements and good and bad or the common humanity of both Tolle and Manson. I used the idea of "perfection" to express that agreement at the time. But what you supported, specifically, was andy's argument based on an absolute context where Tolle and Manson were the same. You helped him morph the conclusion back-and-forth between his context-based argument and one based on seeing the relative for what it is. Noone disagreed with the latter idea, only the one based in the absolute context, and it is the absolute context idea that you specifically supported. At least three different times. |
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Andrew
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 8,345
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Post by Andrew on Aug 24, 2018 23:40:08 GMT
A rock is the earth which is the tree which is the worm which is the human which is the air which is the fish which is the ocean which is the space which is the moon which is the atom which is the universe.
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Post by Figgles on Aug 25, 2018 0:28:27 GMT
Yeah, well, the understanding with regards to the conversation of 'getting lost in the movie/seeing it's a movie, etc' haven't changed hugely if at all... & overall, The more general realizations haven't changed. Not at all. His pointing as I see it has stayed the same. In the past I viewed what I deeemed to be his uncompromising way of talking about this stuff, as being founded upon stubborness vs. clarity. I now see things differently. I would still make that same argument...perhaps would refine some of the language as I did so. I still would maintain that absent personal judgements, Tolle and Manson are in fact, equal....that it's only personal judgements that have us seeing one as good the other as bad. That does not though mean that a murderer IS a rock. Right, so now you're back to where you were in claiming that what you were "seeing not so clearly" before was limited, but over time, as more and more of these recurring dialogs recur, you'll find yourself on exactly the opposite side you were before. Noone disagreed with the idea of value judgements and good and bad or the common humanity of both Tolle and Manson. I used the idea of "perfection" to express that agreement at the time. But what you supported, specifically, was andy's argument based on an absolute context where Tolle and Manson were the same. You helped him morph the conclusion back-and-forth between his context-based argument and one based on seeing the relative for what it is. Noone disagreed with the latter idea, only the one based in the absolute context, and it is the absolute context idea that you specifically supported. At least three different times. Ok. To be perfectly honest, my memory isn't good enough to get more deeply into all that than I have, and my interest isn't strong enough to actually go back & look. I'd prefer to just focus upon what I'm currently seeing. I'll rest in saying there is indeed a good chance that might diverge from what I've said in the past. Fwiw, I don't see that as a bad thing...at all. |
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muttley
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 4,394
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Post by muttley on Aug 25, 2018 0:36:06 GMT
Right, so now you're back to where you were in claiming that what you were "seeing not so clearly" before was limited, but over time, as more and more of these recurring dialogs recur, you'll find yourself on exactly the opposite side you were before. Noone disagreed with the idea of value judgements and good and bad or the common humanity of both Tolle and Manson. I used the idea of "perfection" to express that agreement at the time. But what you supported, specifically, was andy's argument based on an absolute context where Tolle and Manson were the same. You helped him morph the conclusion back-and-forth between his context-based argument and one based on seeing the relative for what it is. Noone disagreed with the latter idea, only the one based in the absolute context, and it is the absolute context idea that you specifically supported. At least three different times. Ok. To be perfectly honest, my memory isn't good enough to get more deeply into all that than I have, and my interest isn't strong enough to actually go back & look. I'd prefer to just focus upon what I'm currently seeing. I'll rest in saying there is indeed a good chance that might diverge from what I've said in the past. Fwiw, I don't see that as a bad thing...at all. Nice morph. See, you'll never lose all your andyfluences.  |
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Enigma
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 13,969 
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Post by Enigma on Aug 26, 2018 2:00:15 GMT
A rock is the earth which is the tree which is the worm which is the human which is the air which is the fish which is the ocean which is the space which is the moon which is the atom which is the universe. ...Which is a nonsense. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2018 19:11:18 GMT
A rock is the earth which is the tree which is the worm which is the human which is the air which is the fish which is the ocean which is the space which is the moon which is the atom which is the universe. ...Which is a nonsense. |
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