Tenka
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 3,647
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Post by Tenka on Apr 28, 2018 19:09:09 GMT
What it means to realize Self is to realize Self (obviously) what one makes of what that means or entails is each to their own butt what one makes of it won't nullify realizing Self .
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Post by Figgles on Apr 28, 2018 20:16:26 GMT
I'm in agreement with all of that, and I've actually only heard of partial SR recently. I may be wrong but it seemed to evolve out of a discussion CC experiences, and a need to include them as part of the realization package, adding some critical 'realization knowledge'. The whole thing makes me question what in blazes is going on. Can't and don't want to speak for ZD here, but my take is that there is a sort of "existential status" that isn't fully self-realized in the sense that the peep hasn't stood up from the identity poker table yet, but at least they're in a high-stakes game. I think of this as "awakened", but not "SR". By contrast, Joe C. Trance never sat down to play. The gambler can easily get attached to an existential misconception. For example, it's a bluff that I'd say most of the batgap interviewees are playing. So then, not 'actually' SR, just 'thinking' you are...?
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Enigma
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 13,969
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Post by Enigma on Apr 29, 2018 4:07:43 GMT
I don't think I've ever heard him talk like that before. Yeah, It seems that in defense of the precious CC experience, SR, which was previously the term used by most on ST, him incl that referenced Truth realization, period, got relegated to some lesser material gleaning of sorts. CC was promoted as the actual realization. Not sure if SR is still required or not. It's all very odd.
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Enigma
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 13,969
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Post by Enigma on Apr 29, 2018 4:30:22 GMT
I'm in agreement with all of that, and I've actually only heard of partial SR recently. I may be wrong but it seemed to evolve out of a discussion CC experiences, and a need to include them as part of the realization package, adding some critical 'realization knowledge'. The whole thing makes me question what in blazes is going on. Can't and don't want to speak for ZD here, but my take is that there is a sort of "existential status" that isn't fully self-realized in the sense that the peep hasn't stood up from the identity poker table yet, but at least they're in a high-stakes game. I think of this as "awakened", but not "SR". By contrast, Joe C. Trance never sat down to play. The gambler can easily get attached to an existential misconception. For example, it's a bluff that I'd say most of the batgap interviewees are playing. Sounds right, though I'm not sure what you mean by 'existential status/misconception'.
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Post by Figgles on Apr 29, 2018 5:44:19 GMT
Yeah, It seems that in defense of the precious CC experience, SR, which was previously the term used by most on ST, him incl that referenced Truth realization, period, got relegated to some lesser material gleaning of sorts. CC was promoted as the actual realization. Not sure if SR is still required or not. It's all very odd. Odd, indeed.
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muttley
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 4,394
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Post by muttley on Apr 30, 2018 11:51:24 GMT
Can't and don't want to speak for ZD here, but my take is that there is a sort of "existential status" that isn't fully self-realized in the sense that the peep hasn't stood up from the identity poker table yet, but at least they're in a high-stakes game. I think of this as "awakened", but not "SR". By contrast, Joe C. Trance never sat down to play. The gambler can easily get attached to an existential misconception. For example, it's a bluff that I'd say most of the batgap interviewees are playing. Sounds right, though I'm not sure what you mean by 'existential status/misconception'. I mean "existential status" as a shorthand for describing the appearance of the individual relative to realization. As far as the misconception goes, it's any sense of conceptualized self. A common idea is: "I am Being/Source/Isness/Existence/God/The Universe/Awareness/Spirit/Consciousness/Nothingness/Infinity/Emptiness temporarily manifesting in human form". Now, some peeps who say this are "Jed-done", but to my eye, for most it's instead, sort of an aspirational statement. In either case, it's clear to me why they're saying that. And I suspect that the period of informing mind after realization is as potentially varied as the human experience in general. Also, the significant milestones of re-conditioning that appear to the individual to have led up to the moment of realization tend to group into classifications of common objectively describable events and experiences. Some of these will seem contradictory, so I've come to actually expect the possibility of impassioned disagreement between peeps who are even genuinely SR. In the main, it's actually quite remarkable that there are pointings -- some of them hundreds if not thousands of years old -- that can lead to agreement on the commonality of what's realized between these different groups.
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Enigma
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 13,969
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Post by Enigma on Apr 30, 2018 15:35:37 GMT
Sounds right, though I'm not sure what you mean by 'existential status/misconception'. I mean "existential status" as a shorthand for describing the appearance of the individual relative to realization. As far as the misconception goes, it's any sense of conceptualized self.A common idea is: "I am Being/Source/Isness/Existence/God/The Universe/Awareness/Spirit/Consciousness/Nothingness/Infinity/Emptiness temporarily manifesting in human form". Now, some peeps who say this are "Jed-done", but to my eye, for most it's instead, sort of an aspirational statement. In either case, it's clear to me why they're saying that. And I suspect that the period of informing mind after realization is as potentially varied as the human experience in general. Also, the significant milestones of re-conditioning that appear to the individual to have led up to the moment of realization tend to group into classifications of common objectively describable events and experiences. Some of these will seem contradictory, so I've come to actually expect the possibility of impassioned disagreement between peeps who are even genuinely SR. In the main, it's actually quite remarkable that there are pointings -- some of them hundreds if not thousands of years old -- that can lead to agreement on the commonality of what's realized between these different groups. Okay, thanks. I'm thinking that how well mind gets informed has everything to do with how conscious one is.
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muttley
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 4,394
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Post by muttley on May 1, 2018 0:02:46 GMT
I mean "existential status" as a shorthand for describing the appearance of the individual relative to realization. As far as the misconception goes, it's any sense of conceptualized self.A common idea is: "I am Being/Source/Isness/Existence/God/The Universe/Awareness/Spirit/Consciousness/Nothingness/Infinity/Emptiness temporarily manifesting in human form". Now, some peeps who say this are "Jed-done", but to my eye, for most it's instead, sort of an aspirational statement. In either case, it's clear to me why they're saying that. And I suspect that the period of informing mind after realization is as potentially varied as the human experience in general. Also, the significant milestones of re-conditioning that appear to the individual to have led up to the moment of realization tend to group into classifications of common objectively describable events and experiences. Some of these will seem contradictory, so I've come to actually expect the possibility of impassioned disagreement between peeps who are even genuinely SR. In the main, it's actually quite remarkable that there are pointings -- some of them hundreds if not thousands of years old -- that can lead to agreement on the commonality of what's realized between these different groups. Okay, thanks. I'm thinking that how well mind gets informed has everything to do with how conscious one is. Sure. That can't hurt. But there's also got to be an interest in the topic of spirituality and how the individual relates to various appearances for it to happen, and I intuit and am willing to consider other factors as to the impetus for the informing to happen. Seems to me that most of the big pieces are gonna' fall into place naturally just as life and mind moves afterward. But understanding and relating to other peeps can sometimes bear aspects of what they call the " coastline problem".
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Enigma
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 13,969
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Post by Enigma on May 1, 2018 4:39:06 GMT
Okay, thanks. I'm thinking that how well mind gets informed has everything to do with how conscious one is. Sure. That can't hurt. But there's also got to be an interest in the topic of spirituality and how the individual relates to various appearances for it to happen, and I intuit and am willing to consider other factors as to the impetus for the informing to happen. Seems to me that most of the big pieces are gonna' fall into place naturally just as life and mind moves afterward. But understanding and relating to other peeps can sometimes bear aspects of what they call the " coastline problem". It can get complex fer sure. sincerity and self honesty come to mind. Interesting that you called it the 'coastline problem' instead of "coastline paradox",which you know it isn't.
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muttley
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 4,394
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Post by muttley on May 1, 2018 16:17:11 GMT
Sure. That can't hurt. But there's also got to be an interest in the topic of spirituality and how the individual relates to various appearances for it to happen, and I intuit and am willing to consider other factors as to the impetus for the informing to happen. Seems to me that most of the big pieces are gonna' fall into place naturally just as life and mind moves afterward. But understanding and relating to other peeps can sometimes bear aspects of what they call the " coastline problem". It can get complex fer sure. sincerity and self honesty come to mind. Interesting that you called it the 'coastline problem' instead of "coastline paradox",which you know it isn't. Someone pointed out to me years ago that paradox is always mental confusion, and I had to admit that, he wasn't wrong.
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