muttley
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 4,394
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Post by muttley on Dec 2, 2017 23:18:34 GMT
On the other hand...although I haven't read anything over there lately on the ST-forum, I find this thread interesting in which Laughter asks "what does God mean to you?" spiritualteachers.proboards.com/thread/5011/god-meanAnd in it he links to a thread in which he tells what it means to him: "...In those moments when I stood in awe at the night sky or in contemplation at the billions of years that have shaped our world I wasn't taking God for granted. In those moments my mind was silent, my heart was unburdened, and it didn't matter what my thoughts or feelings about God were, no matter how beknigted or rebellious. The old religions also give us reverence and prayer. While the focal point of this devotion is sometimes distorted and hijacked for the purposes of people who would seek to gain from control of that focus, the offer to worship is another shadow of the existential truth. In that silent awe one can become on notice of what the old scriptures mean by God's love. Looking out at the apparent desolation of most of our solar system in contrast to the blue and white riot of Earth's sky as seen from above, one can get a visceral sense for what is meant by that love. How lucky are we to have formed from the atoms that just happened to have found themselves a part of this blessed sphere? Is the fact of this moment by accident, or by design? We all carry God within us and each has the privilege of considering this existential question, which might be framed as, what is our relationship to God? If we use our intellects gently but doggedly, and with respect for what is seen, the mind can notice how interconnected we all are and everything is. If we open our hearts and suspend our passions we might come to feel that interconnectedness, and become present to God's love, as God is always calling to us, in every instant. If we listen to this call we might come to realize something quite profound about our point of unique perspective. The absence of separation of that perspective from what it's on can be realized. The nature of the appearances of the limitations that make up that sensory experience can be known for what they are. After that, God's mystery begins to take on a whole other hue." Read more: spiritualteachers.proboards.com/thread/4964/which-more-important-body-mind?page=24#ixzz507B71NRjAnd yes, God is everywhere and in every thing if one is what some teacher calls being "integrated". And for me, right now, being "integrated" means that God is showing me on almost every turn and every move I make that I missed the purpose of my life. And there is nothing I can do about it. And it feels not just utterly bad, it is the worst experience one can possibly have in life. I now realize that I've been totally selfish my whole life. I violated the rules of the tribe I belong to. In other words, I have no children and therefore the realm of my anchesters reject me. God basically tells me, "you give love a bad name". Now I understand the biblical phrase, "the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom." I'm done and I can't even end my life because I'm too much of a coward to do that and on the other hand I don't want my mother and the rest of my family to suffer because I committed suicide. So yes, there is God. God is loving, caring, tender and funny and I'm rejected by that God. How do I know that this is the case? Maybe it's just the dark night of the soul? No, I'm a disappointment for God. And I'm too old to undo it. It's not that I have done something utterly nasty, mean or ugly in particular to other people, like stealing from them or harming them on purpose. I haven't done anything like that. I just messed around in so called spirituality and didn't care enough for others, my family, my friends and for nature. I was supposed to be a tender and loving mother and wife. Doing my job, enjoying family-life in the humble community I'm a part of. That would have been IT for me. I missed it. My whole life I was seeking and now I found it. And it feels terrible. Please keep looking because the only god that would ever reject you is a product of your own imagination.
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Andrew
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 8,340
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Post by Andrew on Dec 3, 2017 0:17:53 GMT
''muttley''....hmmm....that word rings a bell....can't quite place it....
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2017 10:59:06 GMT
On the other hand...although I haven't read anything over there lately on the ST-forum, I find this thread interesting in which Laughter asks "what does God mean to you?" spiritualteachers.proboards.com/thread/5011/god-meanAnd in it he links to a thread in which he tells what it means to him: "...In those moments when I stood in awe at the night sky or in contemplation at the billions of years that have shaped our world I wasn't taking God for granted. In those moments my mind was silent, my heart was unburdened, and it didn't matter what my thoughts or feelings about God were, no matter how beknigted or rebellious. The old religions also give us reverence and prayer. While the focal point of this devotion is sometimes distorted and hijacked for the purposes of people who would seek to gain from control of that focus, the offer to worship is another shadow of the existential truth. In that silent awe one can become on notice of what the old scriptures mean by God's love. Looking out at the apparent desolation of most of our solar system in contrast to the blue and white riot of Earth's sky as seen from above, one can get a visceral sense for what is meant by that love. How lucky are we to have formed from the atoms that just happened to have found themselves a part of this blessed sphere? Is the fact of this moment by accident, or by design? We all carry God within us and each has the privilege of considering this existential question, which might be framed as, what is our relationship to God? If we use our intellects gently but doggedly, and with respect for what is seen, the mind can notice how interconnected we all are and everything is. If we open our hearts and suspend our passions we might come to feel that interconnectedness, and become present to God's love, as God is always calling to us, in every instant. If we listen to this call we might come to realize something quite profound about our point of unique perspective. The absence of separation of that perspective from what it's on can be realized. The nature of the appearances of the limitations that make up that sensory experience can be known for what they are. After that, God's mystery begins to take on a whole other hue." Read more: spiritualteachers.proboards.com/thread/4964/which-more-important-body-mind?page=24#ixzz507B71NRjAnd yes, God is everywhere and in every thing if one is what some teacher calls being "integrated". And for me, right now, being "integrated" means that God is showing me on almost every turn and every move I make that I missed the purpose of my life. And there is nothing I can do about it. And it feels not just utterly bad, it is the worst experience one can possibly have in life. I now realize that I've been totally selfish my whole life. I violated the rules of the tribe I belong to. In other words, I have no children and therefore the realm of my anchesters reject me. God basically tells me, "you give love a bad name". Now I understand the biblical phrase, "the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom." I'm done and I can't even end my life because I'm too much of a coward to do that and on the other hand I don't want my mother and the rest of my family to suffer because I committed suicide. So yes, there is God. God is loving, caring, tender and funny and I'm rejected by that God. How do I know that this is the case? Maybe it's just the dark night of the soul? No, I'm a disappointment for God. And I'm too old to undo it. It's not that I have done something utterly nasty, mean or ugly in particular to other people, like stealing from them or harming them on purpose. I haven't done anything like that. I just messed around in so called spirituality and didn't care enough for others, my family, my friends and for nature. I was supposed to be a tender and loving mother and wife. Doing my job, enjoying family-life in the humble community I'm a part of. That would have been IT for me. I missed it. My whole life I was seeking and now I found it. And it feels terrible. For 33 years of my life I thought I would have my own children. In that 33rd year it turned out that I would raise children that weren't mine 'by blood'. It was a big surprise for me. I don't regret not having children of my own at all. The way I see it, it's actually kinda selfish having children in this day and age. Given the nature of the world, would I be comfortable right now bringing children into it? No! However, there are many children already alive that need love. In similar vein, I find it weird that people would go and buy a new dog or cat, rather than just take on a rescue dog and cat. Why do we keep inviting beings into the world when we don't even do a good job with the ones that are already here?! Have you considered a different kind of role that would enable you to actively love children? I don't know...like fostering or something? (For the record, I don't believe you have missed your purpose, but I do believe that you are experiencing a sense of having missed your purpose). Yes, that was my take on having children also. I felt that I could not possibly raise children in that kind of environment/culture in which it was very difficult to orient myself properly and stay healthy (mentally and physically). And although I was a good looking and intelligent woman, I didn't met a men who wanted to have children with me either. And yes, you are right, first the problem of suffering needs to be solved before deliberately and consciously bringing another human being into this world was also what I thought is the right approach. By the way, yesterday I saw two movies about veganism/vegetarianism and it was horrorble to watch how farmed animals are suffering just because of the lie that humans need to eat meat to survive. How comes the earth has that many humans on it right now? (About 7 billion). How comes that the human population constantely is increasing but other species are going to be exstinct? Every day many species disappear from the earth for ever because the human species is increasing its habitat constantely. I never wanted to have children of my own. From a very early age on I told my grandma, "I'm not going to have children." And she said, "well, you will. You can not possibly know that by now." But I did know it. And here is my theory why there is such a constant increase of the human population although there are wars all over the world in which humans are dying: The more nature gets destroyed, the more the natural habitats of certain species get poluted or destroyed nature-spirits (plant-spirits) and the animal-spirits, who have no place to dwell in any longer, REINCARNATE as humans then, because they have no other choise to get a living body. In other words, many humans are actually elves and nature spirits incarnated as humans. That theory also makes sense when one is wondering how comes that after great destructions like in WWI and WWII the human population is so fast increasing afterwards.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2017 11:17:20 GMT
On the other hand...although I haven't read anything over there lately on the ST-forum, I find this thread interesting in which Laughter asks "what does God mean to you?" spiritualteachers.proboards.com/thread/5011/god-meanAnd in it he links to a thread in which he tells what it means to him: "...In those moments when I stood in awe at the night sky or in contemplation at the billions of years that have shaped our world I wasn't taking God for granted. In those moments my mind was silent, my heart was unburdened, and it didn't matter what my thoughts or feelings about God were, no matter how beknigted or rebellious. The old religions also give us reverence and prayer. While the focal point of this devotion is sometimes distorted and hijacked for the purposes of people who would seek to gain from control of that focus, the offer to worship is another shadow of the existential truth. In that silent awe one can become on notice of what the old scriptures mean by God's love. Looking out at the apparent desolation of most of our solar system in contrast to the blue and white riot of Earth's sky as seen from above, one can get a visceral sense for what is meant by that love. How lucky are we to have formed from the atoms that just happened to have found themselves a part of this blessed sphere? Is the fact of this moment by accident, or by design? We all carry God within us and each has the privilege of considering this existential question, which might be framed as, what is our relationship to God? If we use our intellects gently but doggedly, and with respect for what is seen, the mind can notice how interconnected we all are and everything is. If we open our hearts and suspend our passions we might come to feel that interconnectedness, and become present to God's love, as God is always calling to us, in every instant. If we listen to this call we might come to realize something quite profound about our point of unique perspective. The absence of separation of that perspective from what it's on can be realized. The nature of the appearances of the limitations that make up that sensory experience can be known for what they are. After that, God's mystery begins to take on a whole other hue." Read more: spiritualteachers.proboards.com/thread/4964/which-more-important-body-mind?page=24#ixzz507B71NRjAnd yes, God is everywhere and in every thing if one is what some teacher calls being "integrated". And for me, right now, being "integrated" means that God is showing me on almost every turn and every move I make that I missed the purpose of my life. And there is nothing I can do about it. And it feels not just utterly bad, it is the worst experience one can possibly have in life. I now realize that I've been totally selfish my whole life. I violated the rules of the tribe I belong to. In other words, I have no children and therefore the realm of my anchesters reject me. God basically tells me, "you give love a bad name". Now I understand the biblical phrase, "the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom." I'm done and I can't even end my life because I'm too much of a coward to do that and on the other hand I don't want my mother and the rest of my family to suffer because I committed suicide. So yes, there is God. God is loving, caring, tender and funny and I'm rejected by that God. How do I know that this is the case? Maybe it's just the dark night of the soul? No, I'm a disappointment for God. And I'm too old to undo it. It's not that I have done something utterly nasty, mean or ugly in particular to other people, like stealing from them or harming them on purpose. I haven't done anything like that. I just messed around in so called spirituality and didn't care enough for others, my family, my friends and for nature. I was supposed to be a tender and loving mother and wife. Doing my job, enjoying family-life in the humble community I'm a part of. That would have been IT for me. I missed it. My whole life I was seeking and now I found it. And it feels terrible. Please keep looking because the only god that would ever reject you is a product of your own imagination. Thank you for saying that, Muttley. I guess I know who you are.... Nevertheless...I feel terrible when I judge and evaluate myself through the eyes of God. "What have you done to make the earth a better place?" is the question I have to answer with, "not much unfortunately. I'm still seeking and looking for my place in it." And I'm totally sorry for being such a useless and unproductive human being. I'm deeply ashamed of myself. And it feels as if it's not going to end anytime soon to feel that way.
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Andrew
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 8,340
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Post by Andrew on Dec 3, 2017 11:45:00 GMT
For 33 years of my life I thought I would have my own children. In that 33rd year it turned out that I would raise children that weren't mine 'by blood'. It was a big surprise for me. I don't regret not having children of my own at all. The way I see it, it's actually kinda selfish having children in this day and age. Given the nature of the world, would I be comfortable right now bringing children into it? No! However, there are many children already alive that need love. In similar vein, I find it weird that people would go and buy a new dog or cat, rather than just take on a rescue dog and cat. Why do we keep inviting beings into the world when we don't even do a good job with the ones that are already here?! Have you considered a different kind of role that would enable you to actively love children? I don't know...like fostering or something? (For the record, I don't believe you have missed your purpose, but I do believe that you are experiencing a sense of having missed your purpose). Yes, that was my take on having children also. I felt that I could not possibly raise children in that kind of environment/culture in which it was very difficult to orient myself properly and stay healthy (mentally and physically). And although I was a good looking and intelligent woman, I didn't met a men who wanted to have children with me either. And yes, you are right, first the problem of suffering needs to be solved before deliberately and consciously bringing another human being into this world was also what I thought is the right approach. By the way, yesterday I saw two movies about veganism/vegetarianism and it was horrorble to watch how farmed animals are suffering just because of the lie that humans need to eat meat to survive. How comes the earth has that many humans on it right now? (About 7 billion). How comes that the human population constantely is increasing but other species are going to be exstinct? Every day many species disappear from the earth for ever because the human species is increasing its habitat constantely. I never wanted to have children of my own. From a very early age on I told my grandma, "I'm not going to have children." And she said, "well, you will. You can not possibly know that by now." But I did know it. And here is my theory why there is such a constant increase of the human population although there are wars all over the world in which humans are dying: The more nature gets destroyed, the more the natural habitats of certain species get poluted or destroyed nature-spirits (plant-spirits) and the animal-spirits, who have no place to dwell in any longer, REINCARNATE as humans then, because they have no other choise to get a living body. In other words, many humans are actually elves and nature spirits incarnated as humans. That theory also makes sense when one is wondering how comes that after great destructions like in WWI and WWII the human population is so fast increasing afterwards. Interesting theory, there may be something to it. I was vegetarian for 5 years, my whole family was. It wasn't a moral choice at all to start with, one by one in my family (starting with our son), meat began to get stuck in the mouth...couldn't swallow it. So over a period of a few months we weaned it out of our diet until we were vegetarian. Over the next few years, as we watched the sort of videos you described, a moral and virtuous element crept in. After 5 years something odd happened, which was sort of the reverse. We lost our appetite for all vegetarian food, until we were at a point where we were just looking in the freezer section for vegetarian food to just heat up. The creative element had dissolved, which was hard for my wife, because she loves to be creative in her cooking. The idea to eat meat popped up repeatedly, until we felt we couldn't ignore it, so we started to eat meat again. It was strange at first (and felt unvirtuous haha) but, it was the right choice for us at the time. Just a couple of months after that, we began a 3 year period of our lives where we would house sit for pets while their owners were abroad (that period has been coming to an end this year). There is no way we could be vegetarian during this period, the meat eating has provided a kind of necessary 'grounding' that has enabled us to do what we have done. As this period has drawn to an end, we have again been weaning meat out of our lives to an extent, but we will not go back fully to vegetarianism. I am still horrified by the way that animals are treated, at the core of this, they are treated as 'products' or 'commodities'. How do we put a price on an animal? Though actually, humans are treated as 'products/commodities' too...even humans come at a price and have a material value in the world we live. In theory, I am at a point where I am okay with the idea that an animal may wish to consciously sacrifice itself in joy BUT I believe that that is not what is happening in the system at the moment. In regard to what you just said to muttley.....I can relate to what you are saying to an extent. As I see it, you are recognizing that you have not been at your full 'potential' in terms of what you have to give/offer. I am not at full potential either....very few are. I do my best, but I know there is...more. However, there is also a level at which I believe that in the eyes of God, we are perfect despite the fact that we are not at full potential. We can only do our best within the context of our life situation. If God is judgmental in that way, then quite honestly, the majority of the world are looking kinda sh/t in the eyes of God. Also, we can't truly know just how much we are giving to others. You may have served much much more than you are aware of. A homeless person can be serving others greatly. Someone working in a supermarket can be serving others greatly through their smile. So I think what you are recognizing is important, and may ultimately lead to a whole new chapter of your life, but maybe you are being a bit too hard on yourself. Still if you need to be kinda tough on yourself right now, then that's just what you have to do I guess.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2017 12:36:36 GMT
Yes, that was my take on having children also. I felt that I could not possibly raise children in that kind of environment/culture in which it was very difficult to orient myself properly and stay healthy (mentally and physically). And although I was a good looking and intelligent woman, I didn't met a men who wanted to have children with me either. And yes, you are right, first the problem of suffering needs to be solved before deliberately and consciously bringing another human being into this world was also what I thought is the right approach. By the way, yesterday I saw two movies about veganism/vegetarianism and it was horrorble to watch how farmed animals are suffering just because of the lie that humans need to eat meat to survive. How comes the earth has that many humans on it right now? (About 7 billion). How comes that the human population constantely is increasing but other species are going to be exstinct? Every day many species disappear from the earth for ever because the human species is increasing its habitat constantely. I never wanted to have children of my own. From a very early age on I told my grandma, "I'm not going to have children." And she said, "well, you will. You can not possibly know that by now." But I did know it. And here is my theory why there is such a constant increase of the human population although there are wars all over the world in which humans are dying: The more nature gets destroyed, the more the natural habitats of certain species get poluted or destroyed nature-spirits (plant-spirits) and the animal-spirits, who have no place to dwell in any longer, REINCARNATE as humans then, because they have no other choise to get a living body. In other words, many humans are actually elves and nature spirits incarnated as humans. That theory also makes sense when one is wondering how comes that after great destructions like in WWI and WWII the human population is so fast increasing afterwards. Interesting theory, there may be something to it. I was vegetarian for 5 years, my whole family was. It wasn't a moral choice at all to start with, one by one in my family (starting with our son), meat began to get stuck in the mouth...couldn't swallow it. So over a period of a few months we weaned it out of our diet until we were vegetarian. Over the next few years, as we watched the sort of videos you described, a moral and virtuous element crept in. After 5 years something odd happened, which was sort of the reverse. We lost our appetite for all vegetarian food, until we were at a point where we were just looking in the freezer section for vegetarian food to just heat up. The creative element had dissolved, which was hard for my wife, because she loves to be creative in her cooking. The idea to eat meat popped up repeatedly, until we felt we couldn't ignore it, so we started to eat meat again. It was strange at first (and felt unvirtuous haha) but, it was the right choice for us at the time. Just a couple of months after that, we began a 3 year period of our lives where we would house sit for pets while their owners were abroad (that period has been coming to an end this year). There is no way we could be vegetarian during this period, the meat eating has provided a kind of necessary 'grounding' that has enabled us to do what we have done. As this period has drawn to an end, we have again been weaning meat out of our lives to an extent, but we will not go back fully to vegetarianism. I am still horrified by the way that animals are treated, at the core of this, they are treated as 'products' or 'commodities'. How do we put a price on an animal? Though actually, humans are treated as 'products/commodities' too...even humans come at a price and have a material value in the world we live. In theory, I am at a point where I am okay with the idea that an animal may wish to consciously sacrifice itself in joy BUT I believe that that is not what is happening in the system at the moment. In regard to what you just said to muttley.....I can relate to what you are saying to an extent. As I see it, you are recognizing that you have not been at your full 'potential' in terms of what you have to give/offer. I am not at full potential either....very few are. I do my best, but I know there is...more. However, there is also a level at which I believe that in the eyes of God, we are perfect despite the fact that we are not at full potential. We can only do our best within the context of our life situation. If God is judgmental in that way, then quite honestly, the majority of the world are looking kinda sh/t in the eyes of God. Also, we can't truly know just how much we are giving to others. You may have served much much more than you are aware of. A homeless person can be serving others greatly. Someone working in a supermarket can be serving others greatly through their smile. So I think what you are recognizing is important, and may ultimately lead to a whole new chapter of your life, but maybe you are being a bit too hard on yourself. Still if you need to be kinda tough on yourself right now, then that's just what you have to do I guess. I'm a vegetarian too for some years in a row, but was eating a little bit of chicken inbetween for a while untill the beginning of this year. Basically I'm a lapsed vegetarian since the beginning of this millenium. Now I'm avoiding milk also and put rice-milk into my coffee instead. I also don't think that eating meat is a sin in general. Only the way farmed animals are treated is a sin. Biological farming might be the solution. Eating biologically farmed meat once or twice a month or something like this might be it for humans. And what you said about "not being at full potential" is just a part of the problem for me right now. Yes, I missed a few opportunities in life. I didn't recognize that these circumstances have been Gods offering for me to prove and show what I'm all about. I performed miserable. But who in the world does perform miserable consciously and deliberately? Like, "yeah, I could have done much better but I just didn't because I like it to perform kind of messy. It's my thing to be bad at stuff." I think nobody, not even I, am consciously and willingly doing things poorly. Also, being "tough" on myself and my environment also reflecting it back on me is what happens right now. I deserve it. And I have to face it. I can't fool myself any longer. I'm dissapointed about myself and don't see a way to improve my performance right now. A few things changed dramatically in my life since April this year and that circumstance is also pointing in the same direction: I'm far behind. Like I said in my reply to Muttley, I'm deeply sorry for being such a miserable helper and powerless and selfish human being. So, yes there is God and God is mirroring back to me, on almost every turn, I'm imperfect, a disgrace and a dissapointment. That is the result of radical selfhonesty with a little help of God's grace, showing me through my evironment what I'm all about right now. And there seem to be nothing I can do about it although I'm not even baptized as a christian. Sorry for not having anything better and more uplifting to contribute right now....other than: Yes, there is God and God can (and will) express what needs to be expressed through everything and everybody if neccessary. biblehub.com/niv/psalms/111.htm"...The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom; all who follow his precepts have good understanding. To him belongs eternal praise."
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Andrew
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 8,340
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Post by Andrew on Dec 3, 2017 13:23:02 GMT
Interesting theory, there may be something to it. I was vegetarian for 5 years, my whole family was. It wasn't a moral choice at all to start with, one by one in my family (starting with our son), meat began to get stuck in the mouth...couldn't swallow it. So over a period of a few months we weaned it out of our diet until we were vegetarian. Over the next few years, as we watched the sort of videos you described, a moral and virtuous element crept in. After 5 years something odd happened, which was sort of the reverse. We lost our appetite for all vegetarian food, until we were at a point where we were just looking in the freezer section for vegetarian food to just heat up. The creative element had dissolved, which was hard for my wife, because she loves to be creative in her cooking. The idea to eat meat popped up repeatedly, until we felt we couldn't ignore it, so we started to eat meat again. It was strange at first (and felt unvirtuous haha) but, it was the right choice for us at the time. Just a couple of months after that, we began a 3 year period of our lives where we would house sit for pets while their owners were abroad (that period has been coming to an end this year). There is no way we could be vegetarian during this period, the meat eating has provided a kind of necessary 'grounding' that has enabled us to do what we have done. As this period has drawn to an end, we have again been weaning meat out of our lives to an extent, but we will not go back fully to vegetarianism. I am still horrified by the way that animals are treated, at the core of this, they are treated as 'products' or 'commodities'. How do we put a price on an animal? Though actually, humans are treated as 'products/commodities' too...even humans come at a price and have a material value in the world we live. In theory, I am at a point where I am okay with the idea that an animal may wish to consciously sacrifice itself in joy BUT I believe that that is not what is happening in the system at the moment. In regard to what you just said to muttley.....I can relate to what you are saying to an extent. As I see it, you are recognizing that you have not been at your full 'potential' in terms of what you have to give/offer. I am not at full potential either....very few are. I do my best, but I know there is...more. However, there is also a level at which I believe that in the eyes of God, we are perfect despite the fact that we are not at full potential. We can only do our best within the context of our life situation. If God is judgmental in that way, then quite honestly, the majority of the world are looking kinda sh/t in the eyes of God. Also, we can't truly know just how much we are giving to others. You may have served much much more than you are aware of. A homeless person can be serving others greatly. Someone working in a supermarket can be serving others greatly through their smile. So I think what you are recognizing is important, and may ultimately lead to a whole new chapter of your life, but maybe you are being a bit too hard on yourself. Still if you need to be kinda tough on yourself right now, then that's just what you have to do I guess. I'm a vegetarian too for some years in a row, but was eating a little bit of chicken inbetween for a while untill the beginning of this year. Basically I'm a lapsed vegetarian since the beginning of this millenium. Now I'm avoiding milk also and put rice-milk into my coffee instead. I also don't think that eating meat is a sin in general. Only the way farmed animals are treated is a sin. Biological farming might be the solution. Eating biologically farmed meat once or twice a month or something like this might be it for humans. And what you said about "not being at full potential" is just a part of the problem for me right now. Yes, I missed a few opportunities in life. I didn't recognize that these circumstances have been Gods offering for me to prove and show what I'm all about. I performed miserable. But who in the world does perform miserable consciously and deliberately? Like, "yeah, I could have done much better but I just didn't because I like it to perform kind of messy. It's my thing to be bad at stuff." I think nobody, not even I, am consciously and willingly doing things poorly. Also, being "tough" on myself and my environment also reflecting it back on me is what happens right now. I deserve it. And I have to face it. I can't fool myself any longer. I'm dissapointed about myself and don't see a way to improve my performance right now. A few things changed dramatically in my life since April this year and that circumstance is also pointing in the same direction: I'm far behind. Like I said in my reply to Muttley, I'm deeply sorry for being such a miserable helper and powerless and selfish human being. So, yes there is God and God is mirroring back to me, on almost every turn, I'm imperfect, a disgrace and a dissapointment. That is the result of radical selfhonesty with a little help of God's grace, showing me through my evironment what I'm all about right now. And there seem to be nothing I can do about it although I'm not even baptized as a christian. Sorry for not having anything better and more uplifting to contribute right now....other than: Yes, there is God and God can (and will) express what needs to be expressed through everything and everybody if neccessary. biblehub.com/niv/psalms/111.htm"...The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom; all who follow his precepts have good understanding. To him belongs eternal praise." Alright well whatever you did or didn't do, you strike me as having solid values and keen insight so I'm sure you will work this through. My experience is that whatever I have experienced an intensity of, I also have had experience the other extreme. For example, I would say that overall I had a very happy first 20 years of my life. Not without problems of course, but still. So then I have also experienced intense unhappiness and discomfiture. Also, I know what it is like to be extravagant and financially unconcerned. So I have then also experienced an intensity of financial limitation, and felt the weight of every penny spent. Guess I'm saying that perhaps you have been balancing something lately, I don't know what, but I don't need to know.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2017 13:30:43 GMT
Interesting theory, there may be something to it. I was vegetarian for 5 years, my whole family was. It wasn't a moral choice at all to start with, one by one in my family (starting with our son), meat began to get stuck in the mouth...couldn't swallow it. So over a period of a few months we weaned it out of our diet until we were vegetarian. Over the next few years, as we watched the sort of videos you described, a moral and virtuous element crept in. After 5 years something odd happened, which was sort of the reverse. We lost our appetite for all vegetarian food, until we were at a point where we were just looking in the freezer section for vegetarian food to just heat up. The creative element had dissolved, which was hard for my wife, because she loves to be creative in her cooking. The idea to eat meat popped up repeatedly, until we felt we couldn't ignore it, so we started to eat meat again. It was strange at first (and felt unvirtuous haha) but, it was the right choice for us at the time. Just a couple of months after that, we began a 3 year period of our lives where we would house sit for pets while their owners were abroad (that period has been coming to an end this year). There is no way we could be vegetarian during this period, the meat eating has provided a kind of necessary 'grounding' that has enabled us to do what we have done. As this period has drawn to an end, we have again been weaning meat out of our lives to an extent, but we will not go back fully to vegetarianism. I am still horrified by the way that animals are treated, at the core of this, they are treated as 'products' or 'commodities'. How do we put a price on an animal? Though actually, humans are treated as 'products/commodities' too...even humans come at a price and have a material value in the world we live. In theory, I am at a point where I am okay with the idea that an animal may wish to consciously sacrifice itself in joy BUT I believe that that is not what is happening in the system at the moment. In regard to what you just said to muttley.....I can relate to what you are saying to an extent. As I see it, you are recognizing that you have not been at your full 'potential' in terms of what you have to give/offer. I am not at full potential either....very few are. I do my best, but I know there is...more. However, there is also a level at which I believe that in the eyes of God, we are perfect despite the fact that we are not at full potential. We can only do our best within the context of our life situation. If God is judgmental in that way, then quite honestly, the majority of the world are looking kinda sh/t in the eyes of God. Also, we can't truly know just how much we are giving to others. You may have served much much more than you are aware of. A homeless person can be serving others greatly. Someone working in a supermarket can be serving others greatly through their smile. So I think what you are recognizing is important, and may ultimately lead to a whole new chapter of your life, but maybe you are being a bit too hard on yourself. Still if you need to be kinda tough on yourself right now, then that's just what you have to do I guess. I'm a vegetarian too for some years in a row, but was eating a little bit of chicken inbetween for a while untill the beginning of this year. Basically I'm a lapsed vegetarian since the beginning of this millenium. Now I'm avoiding milk also and put rice-milk into my coffee instead. I also don't think that eating meat is a sin in general. Only the way farmed animals are treated is a sin. Biological farming might be the solution. Eating biologically farmed meat once or twice a month or something like this might be it for humans. And what you said about "not being at full potential" is just a part of the problem for me right now. Yes, I missed a few opportunities in life. I didn't recognize that these circumstances have been Gods offering for me to prove and show what I'm all about. I performed miserable. But who in the world does perform miserable consciously and deliberately? Like, "yeah, I could have done much better but I just didn't because I like it to perform kind of messy. It's my thing to be bad at stuff." I think nobody, not even I, am consciously and willingly doing things poorly. Also, being "tough" on myself and my environment also reflecting it back on me is what happens right now. I deserve it. And I have to face it. I can't fool myself any longer. I'm dissapointed about myself and don't see a way to improve my performance right now. A few things changed dramatically in my life since April this year and that circumstance is also pointing in the same direction: I'm far behind. Like I said in my reply to Muttley, I'm deeply sorry for being such a miserable helper and powerless and selfish human being. So, yes there is God and God is mirroring back to me, on almost every turn, I'm imperfect, a disgrace and a dissapointment. That is the result of radical selfhonesty with a little help of God's grace, showing me through my evironment what I'm all about right now. And there seem to be nothing I can do about it although I'm not even baptized as a christian. Sorry for not having anything better and more uplifting to contribute right now....other than: Yes, there is God and God can (and will) express what needs to be expressed through everything and everybody if neccessary. biblehub.com/niv/psalms/111.htm"...The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom; all who follow his precepts have good understanding. To him belongs eternal praise." Stop judging yourself. If you are really aware when you are judgemental, you might say instead, "I am seeing all these judgements passing through my mind." If you can say that, the identity is cut. Then ask- What can Love do?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2017 15:18:56 GMT
I'm a vegetarian too for some years in a row, but was eating a little bit of chicken inbetween for a while untill the beginning of this year. Basically I'm a lapsed vegetarian since the beginning of this millenium. Now I'm avoiding milk also and put rice-milk into my coffee instead. I also don't think that eating meat is a sin in general. Only the way farmed animals are treated is a sin. Biological farming might be the solution. Eating biologically farmed meat once or twice a month or something like this might be it for humans. And what you said about "not being at full potential" is just a part of the problem for me right now. Yes, I missed a few opportunities in life. I didn't recognize that these circumstances have been Gods offering for me to prove and show what I'm all about. I performed miserable. But who in the world does perform miserable consciously and deliberately? Like, "yeah, I could have done much better but I just didn't because I like it to perform kind of messy. It's my thing to be bad at stuff." I think nobody, not even I, am consciously and willingly doing things poorly. Also, being "tough" on myself and my environment also reflecting it back on me is what happens right now. I deserve it. And I have to face it. I can't fool myself any longer. I'm dissapointed about myself and don't see a way to improve my performance right now. A few things changed dramatically in my life since April this year and that circumstance is also pointing in the same direction: I'm far behind. Like I said in my reply to Muttley, I'm deeply sorry for being such a miserable helper and powerless and selfish human being. So, yes there is God and God is mirroring back to me, on almost every turn, I'm imperfect, a disgrace and a dissapointment. That is the result of radical selfhonesty with a little help of God's grace, showing me through my evironment what I'm all about right now. And there seem to be nothing I can do about it although I'm not even baptized as a christian. Sorry for not having anything better and more uplifting to contribute right now....other than: Yes, there is God and God can (and will) express what needs to be expressed through everything and everybody if neccessary. biblehub.com/niv/psalms/111.htm"...The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom; all who follow his precepts have good understanding. To him belongs eternal praise." Alright well whatever you did or didn't do, you strike me as having solid values and keen insight so I'm sure you will work this through. My experience is that whatever I have experienced an intensity of, I also have had experience the other extreme. For example, I would say that overall I had a very happy first 20 years of my life. Not without problems of course, but still. So then I have also experienced intense unhappiness and discomfiture. Also, I know what it is like to be extravagant and financially unconcerned. So I have then also experienced an intensity of financial limitation, and felt the weight of every penny spent. Guess I'm saying that perhaps you have been balancing something lately, I don't know what, but I don't need to know. What comes to my mind, for what ever reason, is this teaching from Narada's Bhakti sutras about the different so called bhavas, the different modes or dispositions in which one can and will relate to God. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BhavaFrom Narada's bhakti-sutra Nr. 19.: .... 1.) Puja-bhava = the paising and worshipping state of mind 2.) Stava-bhava = the praying state of mind 3.) Dhyanna-bhava = the meditative state of mind 4.) Brahma-bhava = the merged with God state of mind .... And from sutra Nr. 21: In the bhakti tradition there are five kinds of relationships with God....They are as follows: 1.) Daya-bhava = The spirit of a slave (as a relationship with God) 2.) Sakhya-bhava = The spirit of a friend (as a relationship with God) 3.) Vatsalya-bhava = The spirit of parents (as a relationship with God) 4.) Shanta-bhava = The spirit of a philosopher (as a relationship with God) 5.) Kanta-bhava = The spirit of a wife/husband (as a relationship with God) I guess I'm having the Daya-bhava (number one) kind of relationship with God right now. The one of a slave. And my ego, ego defined as: excluding God out, is rejecting that kind of relationship with God. I guess that is why it feels so bad. But from the standpoint of God it's just a way of relating. And God isn't such a bad slave-owner after all.
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Andrew
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 8,340
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Post by Andrew on Dec 3, 2017 15:58:08 GMT
Alright well whatever you did or didn't do, you strike me as having solid values and keen insight so I'm sure you will work this through. My experience is that whatever I have experienced an intensity of, I also have had experience the other extreme. For example, I would say that overall I had a very happy first 20 years of my life. Not without problems of course, but still. So then I have also experienced intense unhappiness and discomfiture. Also, I know what it is like to be extravagant and financially unconcerned. So I have then also experienced an intensity of financial limitation, and felt the weight of every penny spent. Guess I'm saying that perhaps you have been balancing something lately, I don't know what, but I don't need to know. What comes to my mind, for what ever reason, is this teaching from Narada's Bhakti sutras about the different so called bhavas, the different modes or dispositions in which one can and will relate to God. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BhavaFrom Narada's bhakti-sutra Nr. 19.: .... 1.) Puja-bhava = the paising and worshipping state of mind 2.) Stava-bhava = the praying state of mind 3.) Dhyanna-bhava = the meditative state of mind 4.) Brahma-bhava = the merged with God state of mind .... And from sutra Nr. 21: In the bhakti tradition there are five kinds of relationships with God....They are as follows: 1.) Daya-bhava = The spirit of a slave (as a relationship with God) 2.) Sakhya-bhava = The spirit of a friend (as a relationship with God) 3.) Vatsalya-bhava = The spirit of parents (as a relationship with God) 4.) Shanta-bhava = The spirit of a philosopher (as a relationship with God) 5.) Kanta-bhava = The spirit of a wife/husband (as a relationship with God) I guess I'm having the Daya-bhava (number one) kind of relationship with God right now. The one of a slave. And my ego, ego defined as: excluding God out, is rejecting that kind of relationship with God. I guess that is why it feels so bad. But from the standpoint of God it's just a way of relating. And God isn't such a bad slave-owner after all. I've never come across anything quite like that before....it actually kind of accords to my long term experience a fair bit when I think about it. Though I would have thought that the spirit of a child would also be there.
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