Enigma
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Post by Enigma on Jul 13, 2017 23:38:33 GMT
Purification of mind has been Enigmas mantra forever. But he's been banging his head on the wall, because quite simply, it doesn’t work. Never has worked and never will work. The desire to do something, like purification, with the garbage of the mind, or run away from it to the Himalaya's, is what perpetuates it. The best way to deal with it is to keep it where it is. That way it's momentum is allowed expression but is contained. The difficulty is deciding what purification is. I've been critical of what Enigma has said about purification in the past because it sounded like therapy to me. But the idea of purification exists in Yoga in the eight limbs of Patanjali's Raja Yoga. It exists in Buddhism in the eightfold path of right speech, right thinking etc and in the practice of Loving Kindness for instance. Mahesh Yogi spoke about meditation in terms of purification. He said the nervous system was like a battery and stored stress which was released and dissolved in meditation by experiencing finer levels of thinking and transcending to experience pure awareness. This release of stress resulted in a finely tuned physiology and nervous system which could increasingly maintain awareness along with activity. This is purification in a yogic sense.Sounds good to me. I've had the opportunity to watch Marie go through this purification, though as somebody mentioned, it's ongoing, as you never actually arrive at some sort of idealized state. I've seen her release fears, change her attitudes, and improve her health, even change the way she walks. She credits our squirrel satsangs but I suspect the real picture is a bit larger than that. The energy that has run through my body for nearly two decades is also running through hers. I'm ambivalent about that as it's nobody's idea of fun, but it IS part of her 'process'. |
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Enigma
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Post by Enigma on Jul 13, 2017 23:42:19 GMT
Purification of mind has been Enigmas mantra forever. But he's been banging his head on the wall, because quite simply, it doesn’t work. Never has worked and never will work. The desire to do something, like purification, with the garbage of the mind, or run away from it to the Himalaya's, is what perpetuates it. The best way to deal with it is to keep it where it is. That way it's momentum is allowed expression but is contained. I do get how the very idea that there is something wrong with mind...it is unpure and needs 'fixing' could be seen to be just one more thing that perpetuates the garbage....but I think some here are talking more about a purification that is a natural happening...more a 'by-product' of clarity than anything else. I've yet to read all the posts in this thread, so I will hafta see on that note... Yes, I first used the term 'purification' perhaps in the last year, though it's at least akin to the idea of becoming conscious. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2017 0:20:36 GMT
Yes, many paths for purification of the mind. Some that are thousands of years old. But how many actually work? We just have to look around at the consensual world to answer that question.  Well, if we're looking from the angle of 'a path,' the part about that that 'works' is the interest/intention that put one there. so long as sincere interest/intent remains strong, one will keep following along....it could be argued that paths that don't bear fruit are just paths where interest/intent waned. Of course, it's also important to see, that interest/intent is out of the hands of one who thinks a particular path is 'his' idea. Sure, all paths lead nowhere, because what lay at the end doesn’t exist. That's why Enigmas mantra that walking the path itself, is enough to make one "accident prone" is conceptual folly in anyone's world but his own. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2017 0:22:46 GMT
Am curious to hear opinions here; Was Niz's fatal cancer evidence of an absence of purification? When a pine beetle infestation wipes out an entire forest, was it because of an absence of purification? |
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Enigma
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Post by Enigma on Jul 14, 2017 0:51:35 GMT
Yes. Many different ideas about what precisely it means and how it happens, for sure. Yes, many paths for purification of the mind. Some that are thousands of years old. But how many actually work? We just have to look around at the consensual world to answer that question. Oh, I see every day on this forum why it doesn't work, and it's not about the path. We cling to our brokenness as though our lives depend on it. |
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Post by Figgles on Jul 14, 2017 1:08:26 GMT
Am curious to hear opinions here; Was Niz's fatal cancer evidence of an absence of purification? When a pine beetle infestation wipes out an entire forest, was it because of an absence of purification? Okay. I think I can see which side your bread is buttered on, re: this issue.  |
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Post by Figgles on Jul 14, 2017 1:10:23 GMT
Yes, many paths for purification of the mind. Some that are thousands of years old. But how many actually work? We just have to look around at the consensual world to answer that question. Oh, I see every day on this forum why it doesn't work, and it's not about the path. We cling to our brokenness as though our lives depend on it. Interesting. Recently you rebutted the assertion that on some level, folks want to suffer. How is what you said here different from that..? |
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Enigma
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Post by Enigma on Jul 14, 2017 1:25:18 GMT
So what's the causal/non causal argument? We say that SR is uncaused but what about purification which can be considered as a process in time. When a fruit ripens it is happening in time and can be observed and evaluated. Should spiritual ripening be treated any differently? AS I see it, there is indeed a point where it is important to see that it's all just happening, unfolding, as one fundamental, foundational movement, thus, there is no actual volitional chooser/doer, thus no actual path, thus, no decipherable cause.... but you sure dont' wanna get stuck holding to and defending that seeing. All that indicates is that you are feeling the need to deny appearances in favor of a focus upon the fundamentals....which only happens when appearances still got ya by the short & curlies. Integration means engagement with all that appears, and 'processes' happening in time, are part and parcel of that. There is a point where the acknowledgment of the appearance/experience of paths and processes gets included in the umbrella of understanding that all is happening as one movement. Thus, there is no conflict at all in talking about a process towards spiritual ripening AND also talking about how there is fundamentally no cause or path to SR. As I see it, the actual realization is simply something mind cannot do as mind deals exclusively in processes, and realization is not a process. Realization transcends mind and so mind cannot 'do' anything. However, it can get the hell out of the way, which is what being ripe and conscious and purified is all about. Purification is mind's domain since it is a process that involves mind in addressing mind and doesn't directly concern itself with SR. (The fact of nonvolition is not relevant as long as one is fairly certain that he can walk across the room if he chooses to do so.) |
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Enigma
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Post by Enigma on Jul 14, 2017 1:31:10 GMT
Am curious to hear opinions here; Was Niz's fatal cancer evidence of an absence of purification? That was one of the things I meant to imply in my OP on the original thread. |
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Enigma
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Post by Enigma on Jul 14, 2017 1:37:23 GMT
Well, if we're looking from the angle of 'a path,' the part about that that 'works' is the interest/intention that put one there. so long as sincere interest/intent remains strong, one will keep following along....it could be argued that paths that don't bear fruit are just paths where interest/intent waned. Of course, it's also important to see, that interest/intent is out of the hands of one who thinks a particular path is 'his' idea. Sure, all paths lead nowhere, because what lay at the end doesn’t exist. That's why Enigmas mantra that walking the path itself, is enough to make one "accident prone" is conceptual folly in anyone's world but his own. The 'path' of becoming conscious leads to becoming conscious. The 'path' to purification leads to purification. There is no path to SR, but it's not true that all paths lead nowhere. |
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