Esponja
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Posts: 1,742
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Post by Esponja on Nov 8, 2022 7:30:02 GMT
I have to be honest here, I don’t get it. What and who bypasses what? 🤷🏻♀️
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Inavalan
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 1,608
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Post by Inavalan on Nov 8, 2022 8:55:18 GMT
I have to be honest here, I don’t get it. What and who bypasses what? 🤷🏻♀️ I haven't heard of "spiritual bypassing", so I looked it up, and browsed this: linkMy interpretation is that any different spiritual system of beliefs that is different from mine is wrong, mine being indisputably the only correct one, so I'll dismissively and derogatorily call it: "spiritual bypass" ... A couple of days ago (Saturday, Nov. 5th, 2022, before midnight), I consulted the I Ching about what's happening and its guidance for me (haven't done that for years, until recently, after somebody mentioned the I Ching on the spiritualteachers, and coincidentally I checked that site for the first time after many months): - 55: present: Zenith (meaning: the highest point or state; culmination)
- 51: future: Shocking
- 3rd line: guidance: Incompetence is at its Zenith. Be patient.
Clear enough ...
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Esponja
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 1,742
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Post by Esponja on Nov 8, 2022 13:03:10 GMT
I have to be honest here, I don’t get it. What and who bypasses what? 🤷🏻♀️ I haven't heard of "spiritual bypassing", so I looked it up, and browsed this: linkMy interpretation is that any different spiritual system of beliefs that is different from mine is wrong, mine being indisputably the only correct one, so I'll dismissively and derogatorily call it: "spiritual bypass" ... A couple of days ago (Saturday, Nov. 5th, 2022, before midnight), I consulted the I Ching about what's happening and its guidance for me (haven't done that for years, until recently, after somebody mentioned the I Ching on the spiritualteachers, and coincidentally I checked that site for the first time after many months): - 55: present: Zenith (meaning: the highest point or state; culmination)
- 51: future: Shocking
- 3rd line: guidance: Incompetence is at its Zenith. Be patient.
Clear enough ...
What’s the i ching? Can you elaborate a bit pls?
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Inavalan
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 1,608
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Post by Inavalan on Nov 8, 2022 20:56:36 GMT
I haven't heard of "spiritual bypassing", so I looked it up, and browsed this: linkMy interpretation is that any different spiritual system of beliefs that is different from mine is wrong, mine being indisputably the only correct one, so I'll dismissively and derogatorily call it: "spiritual bypass" ... A couple of days ago (Saturday, Nov. 5th, 2022, before midnight), I consulted the I Ching about what's happening and its guidance for me (haven't done that for years, until recently, after somebody mentioned the I Ching on the spiritualteachers, and coincidentally I checked that site for the first time after many months): - 55: present: Zenith (meaning: the highest point or state; culmination)
- 51: future: Shocking
- 3rd line: guidance: Incompetence is at its Zenith. Be patient.
Clear enough ...
What’s the i ching? Can you elaborate a bit pls? "I Ching", also transliterated "Yi King", called "The Book of Changes", is an ancient Chinese divination method, and philosophy. Some call it an Oracle. You ask a question (think about it, or write it down), draw a hexagram, and interpret it. There are tons of translation of the old Chinese texts, but from all, the one that I consider the best for me is R. L. Wing's "The I Ching Workbook". When I was introduced to it I was intrigued of the accuracy and usefulness of the answers, and not being into divination and such, I couldn't understand how and why it works. I used it several times when facing decisions, and other times informatively. Almost always it was useful. A few times, some time later I realized that I misunderstood the message, and the I Ching was right. After I got deeper into trying to make sense of reality, I felt less and less the need to consult the I Ching. At some point I (think that I) understood how and why it works. It is a method of tapping into your inner-senses, to some degree what we call intuition. It is the same reason for which the pendulum and other divination methods work. Also, the subjective interpretation is crucial (as with all the other divination methods). The I Ching, because of using 64 hexagrams, and their changing lines giving significantly more combinations, has a range of interpretation much larger, and it also allows the filtering out of more of the subjective distortions. Recently, after several months, I check the spiritualteachers forum, and it happened that a poster brought in discussion the I Ching, which made me think about it again, and try a few questions. The answers were again spot-on. Interestingly, sometimes the Oracle volunteers useful guidance beyond the question it is asked. This makes sense, when you consider that you access a knowledge and capacity of perception beyond the ones you have while physically awake; they are still yours, a "larger" you. I recommend the I Ching, and I recommend R. L. Wing's translation. Surely, you get from it only as much as you are able to. It depends on how you approach it. Still, even for the unfamiliar user, it is always quite useful.
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Esponja
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 1,742
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Post by Esponja on Nov 8, 2022 22:55:36 GMT
What’s the i ching? Can you elaborate a bit pls? "I Ching", also transliterated "Yi King", called "The Book of Changes", is an ancient Chinese divination method, and philosophy. Some call it an Oracle. You ask a question (think about it, or write it down), draw a hexagram, and interpret it. There are tons of translation of the old Chinese texts, but from all, the one that I consider the best for me is R. L. Wing's "The I Ching Workbook". When I was introduced to it I was intrigued of the accuracy and usefulness of the answers, and not being into divination and such, I couldn't understand how and why it works. I used it several times when facing decisions, and other times informatively. Almost always it was useful. A few times, some time later I realized that I misunderstood the message, and the I Ching was right. After I got deeper into trying to make sense of reality, I felt less and less the need to consult the I Ching. At some point I (think that I) understood how and why it works. It is a method of tapping into your inner-senses, to some degree what we call intuition. It is the same reason for which the pendulum and other divination methods work. Also, the subjective interpretation is crucial (as with all the other divination methods). The I Ching, because of using 64 hexagrams, and their changing lines giving significantly more combinations, has a range of interpretation much larger, and it also allows the filtering out of more of the subjective distortions. Recently, after several months, I check the spiritualteachers forum, and it happened that a poster brought in discussion the I Ching, which made me think about it again, and try a few questions. The answers were again spot-on. Interestingly, sometimes the Oracle volunteers useful guidance beyond the question it is asked. This makes sense, when you consider that you access a knowledge and capacity of perception beyond the ones you have while physically awake; they are still yours, a "larger" you. I recommend the I Ching, and I recommend R. L. Wing's translation. Surely, you get from it only as much as you are able to. It depends on how you approach it. Still, even for the unfamiliar user, it is always quite useful. Wow. I’d never heard of it. Wonder how you find out about it locally although I bet now it’ll enter my field, How does the pendalum access your intuition? I’ve only used it the same way you muscle test. [ For what it’s worth, I found my feng shui chart exceptionally accurate this year but knowing about it didn’t help me navigate the drama in anyway unfortunately I still had to experience it all. br]
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Post by Figgles on Nov 9, 2022 20:08:05 GMT
I have to be honest here, I don’t get it. What and who bypasses what? 🤷🏻♀️ Yeah, it's interesting how that terms gets used in certain nonduality convos. I'm not entirely sure either of the precise definition, but However you break it down, seems it's a term used when someone is calling bullshit on another who presents him/herself as awake/SR. Taken on it's face, it seems to imply that are certain 'steps' one must go through before he can declare wakefulness, and that itself rings hollow to me, as really, there are no steps.....only one, singular seeing through/realization that then clears up all the previous delusions, and that is the seeing through of "separation." I think it is fair to see there ARE folks who get a glimmer and then adopt a whole bunch of new spiritual beliefs/ideas/knowings and mistakingly call those Truth, but seems the term "spiritual bypassing" as it gets used, references something somewhat different.
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Esponja
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 1,742
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Post by Esponja on Nov 10, 2022 0:44:05 GMT
I have to be honest here, I don’t get it. What and who bypasses what? 🤷🏻♀️ Yeah, it's interesting how that terms gets used in certain nonduality convos. I'm not entirely sure either of the precise definition, but However you break it down, seems it's a term used when someone is calling bullshit on another who presents him/herself as awake/SR. Taken on it's face, it seems to imply that are certain 'steps' one must go through before he can declare wakefulness, and that itself rings hollow to me, as really, there are no steps.....only one, singular seeing through/realization that then clears up all the previous delusions, and that is the seeing through of "separation." I think it is fair to see there ARE folks who get a glimmer and then adopt a whole bunch of new spiritual beliefs/ideas/knowings and mistakingly call those Truth, but seems the term "spiritual bypassing" as it gets used, references something somewhat different. Yes I have seen Jac O’Keefe use it for example which somewhat suprised me, if speaking about Truth how can anything be bypassed? I thought it meant those people who have had clarity but still have unconscious programming to deal with? I.e they are bypassing their spiritual growth/evolution in the name of non-duality. Using the, there’s nobody here, line instead of owning their ‘shadow’. Again though there’s no room for that in Truth so am definitely confused.
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Post by Figgles on Nov 10, 2022 1:38:45 GMT
Yeah, it's interesting how that terms gets used in certain nonduality convos. I'm not entirely sure either of the precise definition, but However you break it down, seems it's a term used when someone is calling bullshit on another who presents him/herself as awake/SR. Taken on it's face, it seems to imply that are certain 'steps' one must go through before he can declare wakefulness, and that itself rings hollow to me, as really, there are no steps.....only one, singular seeing through/realization that then clears up all the previous delusions, and that is the seeing through of "separation." I think it is fair to see there ARE folks who get a glimmer and then adopt a whole bunch of new spiritual beliefs/ideas/knowings and mistakingly call those Truth, but seems the term "spiritual bypassing" as it gets used, references something somewhat different. Yes I have seen Jac O’Keefe use it for example which somewhat suprised me, if speaking about Truth how can anything be bypassed? I thought it meant those people who have had clarity but still have unconscious programming to deal with? I.e they are bypassing their spiritual growth/evolution in the name of non-duality. Using the, there’s nobody here, line instead of owning their ‘shadow’. Again though there’s no room for that in Truth so am definitely confused. Yup agreed. If one is using the "there is no one here," bit to deny the arising of ego, shadow... then clearly, SR/wakefulness is not the case. There was no "by-passing" at all...just a sort of unconscious stuckness in the dream, mistaking it for transcendence.
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Esponja
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 1,742
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Post by Esponja on Nov 11, 2022 0:14:17 GMT
Yes I have seen Jac O’Keefe use it for example which somewhat suprised me, if speaking about Truth how can anything be bypassed? I thought it meant those people who have had clarity but still have unconscious programming to deal with? I.e they are bypassing their spiritual growth/evolution in the name of non-duality. Using the, there’s nobody here, line instead of owning their ‘shadow’. Again though there’s no room for that in Truth so am definitely confused. Yup agreed. If one is using the "there is no one here," bit to deny the arising of ego, shadow... then clearly, SR/wakefulness is not the case. There was no "by-passing" at all...just a sort of unconscious stuckness in the dream, mistaking it for transcendence. Even if there is denial in actuality nothing can be bypassed so I struggle to make sense of it when we are speaking Truth. There’s no time 🤷🏻♀️
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Post by Figgles on Nov 11, 2022 7:54:03 GMT
Yup agreed. If one is using the "there is no one here," bit to deny the arising of ego, shadow... then clearly, SR/wakefulness is not the case. There was no "by-passing" at all...just a sort of unconscious stuckness in the dream, mistaking it for transcendence. Even if there is denial in actuality nothing can be bypassed so I struggle to make sense of it when we are speaking Truth. There’s no time 🤷🏻♀️ Yeah...it's an odd term to even come up when talking about Nonduality/SR.
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