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Post by Figgles on Aug 14, 2024 19:55:12 GMT
That right there ZD, would be one of those "misconceived existential questions" that gets seen through in SR. You might as well be asking "what controls the the wind.....the movement of planets...the path a butterfly takes as it moves...
A mystical, beyond the consensus trance viewpoint will illuminate a beyond the consensus trance answer, but that answer will still be "within the dream-state/relative," even though within that paradigm, it will seem to be "beyond" so called normal, mind-based ideas.
In SR, the very idea that there is "some-thing" that is "controlling" any particular apparent function/process, gets seen through. All experiential processes/functions fall under the umbrella of appearance only/dream-content and thus, cannot be used to arrive at Truth.
A controlling "entity/force"... if we're talking Truth, is always an illusion. Ultimately, it's all just happening...."order" and "control" when it comes to apparent function/process, are but an appearance only.
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Post by Figgles on Aug 14, 2024 19:56:00 GMT
Eggzacktly!!
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Post by Figgles on Aug 21, 2024 19:01:29 GMT
"All that is," is not some "generating" some-thing, material machine as you seem to be asserting to be there. The apparent movement/unfolding is part and parcel of All that is. (which is but a pointer and very important not to conceptualize it, as is clearly happening here).
And just because a particular interest towards an action/practice can be said to be a facet of "All that is," does not therefore mean that it will magically gain "causative/creative" power, via that.
In a true "resolution" of all existential questions, the very idea that the activity of meditation lies "causal/creative" to that seeing through, will itself be seen through.
And really, existential questions are not actually "resolved" at all, (in a way that is satisfying to mind) rather, they get realized as having been "misconceived" from the get-go.
If you come away with additive knowledge...a pat/fixed, concrete answer to an existential question that you regard to be "Absolute/realized," plain and simply, delusion is in play.
Existential questions of a seeker, are not answered, they are seen through.
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Post by Figgles on Aug 25, 2024 18:19:46 GMT
Not "coming from" All that is, it IS noneother than, "All that is."
When you posit "All that is," as being a "creator" like that, you invoke fundamental separation.
That said, not sure what you're point is. The fact that the belief that mediation might be causal to SR does not fall outside of "all that is," does not make it any more True or less fundamentally false.
If the existential belief in separation has actually been resolved as you say, it would be crystal clear that the meditation that experientially "led up to" it, was not actually/fundamentally "beneficial/catalyzing" in the way you presently think it was.
There are certain, stark "tells" when it comes to whether one is talking outta their hat or not re: this stuff and that there is a huge one. Wakefulness makes it crystal clear that regardless of what experiential practices/processes "led up to" the final shift of SR, none of those were 'actually/fundamentally' the reason why the shift happened.
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Post by Figgles on Sept 9, 2024 6:26:55 GMT
Your reference to "a" looker, implies a some-thing/object that Is doing the looking/seeing. SR dissolves all such objects/things. There is simply looking/seeing/awareness....mind leaps in to assume a "looker/seer/some-thing that IS aware" inherent to that. SR clear that up.
That is the epitome of conceptualizing the pointer of abiding, singular Awareness.
All you're doing with your "field of reality that is alive and aware," is substituting a god-like entity with that imagined field that has the qualities/properties of being alive and infusing it's manifest objects with those same qualities/properties.
Your "entity-like God," is noneother than that "field of reality that is aware of itself via temporal, manifest objects."
If it's Absolutely so that each and every manifest object is itself, inherently aware, that implies each object as an entity within which awareness arises...as having independent, separate existence.
You've got things backwards; Awareness is the ground to all manifest objects. Manifest objects are not the ground to Awareness. Objects and their properties/qualities arise within/to Awareness. Awareness does not arise as a quality/property within/to objects.
Absent all objects, Awareness still stands. Absent Awareness, there are no objects.
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Post by Figgles on Sept 9, 2024 19:59:02 GMT
The "aliveness" you insist to be a property/quality of this "field within which all phenomena appear" is itself phenomenal, but you have mistaken it for primordial. Abiding Awareness that stands alone, defies quality/property...it's a misconception to apply it.
If you are seeing/knowing this aliveness in your supposed apprehension of "Awareness that stands alone, absent phenomenal content," then the shift in locus of seeing to beyond/prior to all phenomena, has not been complete. A true shift to beyond, illuminates the merest most nuanced perceivable as it emerges within that emptiness/silence. It's as clear as the first ripple is upon a pond that is standing still....a serene sheet of glass, upon which that ripple starkly appears.
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Post by Figgles on Sept 9, 2024 20:10:13 GMT
This is an important point to elaborate upon; This really is crux of awakening...the ability to initially decipher the abiding ground that stands alone from ALL content.
At 3rd mountain/full circle, that distinction dissolves all identification with limitation/boundedness while also rendering the entire world and all it's things and facets into some-thing to be revered, embraced and loved unconditionally.
It could be said that in that rendering, the entire world and all it's things "enlivens"....is experienced as inherently intelligent....conscious...benevolent....all those qualities that inspire awe and reverence. That said, it's incredibly important not to conflate those 'experiential' attributes/qualities as having inherent existence...as themselves as representative of Absolute Truth. That's the misatke ZD, Reefs and a few others are making.
What's required is a further shift in seeing to 'beyond/prior to' ALL content....even that which is so mystical, beautiful and awe-inspiring that turn away from it, hurts the heart. There only needs to be a turning away from it...a standing apart in terms of seeing it AS content...thus, as empty of Truth...empty of inherent existence...mind mistakes that for a prescription to denigrade or rebuke that aliveness, vibrancy, beauty...awe....but the opposite it true. To see all appearance as empty is to "enlighten" the entire world and all it's things and properties/qualities relative to all those.
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Post by Figgles on Sept 16, 2024 2:33:42 GMT
If these are actually two distinct realizations, where there can be one without the other, that means that "what you are," is something other than "reality."
How could you see through false ideas about reality without "ALSO" seeing through false ideas about personal identity/what you are?
Your ontology very cleary, reifies separation...a distinct, existent "some-thing/some-one" that you ARE, and then a reality that stands alone from that.
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Post by Figgles on Sept 16, 2024 2:36:24 GMT
It is the way to being a more consciously aware, present, tuned-in person...what Jed McKenna references as "human adulthood"...what I call being awake to the consensus trance, but it's not to be conflated with the shift in locus of seeing that is SR/awakening TO the dream.
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Post by Figgles on Sept 17, 2024 16:26:29 GMT
ALL relative, conceptual understandings, even if those understandings pertain to the shift that is SR, like it or not, DO involve the intellect to some degree. The shift in locus of seeing that flips reality on it's head, that has seeing itself now happening from a vantage point of beyond/prior to, itself, does not involve intellect, but all assimilations of that as experience is impacted...all understanding "about" that shift and the loss/absence left in it's wake, DO.
What important here is not conflating the realization/shift in seeing and subsequent absence with the mind-based/intellect based, conceptualization of all that.
And that "understanding" is but a conceptual/intellect based one that unfortunately, does not have absence/loss (SR) at it's initial crux. A true seeing through/realization that renders separation false does not have you coming away with an Absolute, additive knowing about "what" you are...about "what" reality IS.
Your "unified field with no separate parts," is a way to have your cake and eat it too.....with that you reify all apparent forms/objects as "existent in their own right," by mistakingly assigning them the 'substance' you also mistakingly assign to the unfettered, abiding ground. Distinct things/objects need not be denied their temporal appearance, but they must be realized to be empty and devoid of their own inherent existence if separation is to be seen through/become absent.
There's that cake again. "vast and unified" are properties/qualities....perceivable...experiential content. To apply those qualities to "Isness" is to reveal a conceptualization where what's called for is "a realization/seeing through/absence."
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