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Post by Figgles on Apr 10, 2024 18:00:02 GMT
The realization of Oneness....Infinite, is always imminent, direct...here...NOW. It means, imminently, there is an absence of imagined separation in play...it means "imminently" the primary locus of seeing is from beyond/prior to all distinction...all limitation. If memory is involved...knowledge gleaned and carried over from a past event, we are not then talking "realization" at all, but rather, conceptual knowledge.
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Post by Figgles on Apr 10, 2024 22:14:08 GMT
ZD (and Muttley) I'd love to hear more about this supposed "apprehension of Infinite/Oneness" that somehow leaves the illusion of separate person-hood intact. How can Infinite Oneness be "apprehended" if there's still a separate someone in the mix? Whatever this so called "Infinite Oneness" is that is apprehended, so long as the imagined separate person is still in play, could only ever be "a conceptualization" of what the pointer "Infinite Oneness" is pointing to. True "apprehension/realization" of Oneness requires a full seeing through (absence of) ALL imagined separation...which of course includes the imaginary separate self/me. The term "Self Realization" for the purpose of this convo, may be more aptly termed "Self unveiling." It's only when the imaginary separate (s)elf is seen through and is absent that (S)elf is revealed...or in other words, when "Infinite Oneness" is apprehended. All of those terms are basically pointing to the same non-conceptual "realization/apprehension/." An "Infinite Oneness" apprehension that allows for the continuation of the false sense of being a separate someone is not really an "apprehension" at all...it couldn't be...instead it's just a conceptual grasp...mind's imagined conceptualization of what it thinks "Infinite Oneness" is. It couldn't be actual "Infinite/Oneness" or there would no longer be the presence of an imagined, separate someone. Surely this is rather obvious even to those who only have a conceptual understanding.
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Post by Figgles on Apr 20, 2024 17:00:20 GMT
Yes, just because the source of a pointer to Truth is offering those pointers from a mere conceptual grasp vs. realization, does not make the pointer itself shit. But indeed, one whose walk 'aint matching his talk, is clearly not living from a place of realization.
There are some very specific impacts upon experience that come hand in hand with SR. One who demonstrates an aversion to having their own views challenged as they offer pointers to others should raise a red flag for sure. If it's true what's being said there about Shunyamurti, then obviously, his experience has no been informed of a realized absence and he's simply spouting what are to him, mere conceptual ideas/beliefs.
True "realization" impacts experience. Anything that hinged upon imagined separation, goes in that realized absence. One of the most noticeable absences is egoic fear of challenge.
What's interesting ZD is that bolded bit could be describing you and the way you engage on ST. You are fine with doling out advice to others, but when they try to challenge you, you'll have none of it.
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Post by Figgles on Apr 20, 2024 20:16:23 GMT
True SR/waking up though is not about an attainment of personal satisfaction. It's a profound shift in locus of seeing that illuminates personal satisfaction itself, as an appearance only....as something that is based upon mind's judgments about apparent conditions.
The SR don't cease seeking for existential answers because they are "satisfied" with the particular answers they arrived at, but rather, seeking for those answers ceases when the questions themselves are seen to have been erroneous/misconceived.
The seeking of an SVP is not only about seeking for existential answers, it's about seeking for something other than THIS...seeking/grasping for something "other than" this moment and it's imminent isness.
I'd be willing to be that this dude, while he may no longer be abjectly seeking for existential answers, IS (due to the SVP still being in play) still seeking beyond THIS for something "other than/different from" what imminently presents.
So long as separation is still in play, that is necessarily the case, to some degree. It's simply the nature of imagined separation/the SVP.
If you come away with a conceptual, additive knowing about "what/who" you are, then in that case too, there is further. All realizations are seeing of what is not so. If you come away with the presence of new, additive, conceptual knowledge/baggage, vs. an absence, you've meandered off in the wrong direction and mistook it for "beyond/prior to," when really, you're still smack-dab in the midst of the dream-scape.
Bingo. And that also applies to believer's who think they understand reality because of adherence to what was experienced during a profound, awe-inspiring woo-woo/CC/Kensho.
If there is an abiding absence of an SVP, plain and simply, there is no "spiritual backdoor" where self-centeredness could creep through. For (s)elf centeredness to creep there in, there would have to first be identification with (s)elf, creeping back in....which means, there's a falling back into the dream of being a self-identified entity.
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