Post by Figgles on Jan 18, 2020 21:10:40 GMT
Zendancer: I don't understand what "an experiential expression of a realization not yet realized" means. Can you clarify this statement further?
That would go something like this; An illusion was briefly seen through, but then that which was seen through, immediately re-asserted itself. Mind takes that 'glimmer of Truth' and it's then expressed in the playing out of a very unique, special, cosmic, mystical experience.
Your continued waffling between "it was seen that reality is not what I thought it was," vs. "I saw that reality is a unified field of aliveness",...and that based upon that you now know for absolute certain that everything is alive, conscious, perceiving, experiencing, offers the perfect example.
You say you mostly agree that a realization = a loss/seeing through, but then you also seem adamant to include the addition of new knowledge about the appearing world, and to also have that fall under the umbrella of 'realization.' Plain and simply, it doesn't. The fact that it's an addition of knowledge vs. a subtraction/seeing through that results in an absence, should be your first clue that mind has jumped into the equation to assert itself where it actually has no place whatsoever.
I should probably back up and say that during a CC THIS knows (gnosis) its own infinity, unity, vastness, intellectual incomprehensibility, etc, directly, but it cannot be conceptualized by a separate observer/experiencer until after the intellect begins to function normally again in a dualistic way.
Beyond conceptualization, there is nothing TO know! You are conceptualizing the pointers: 'infinity, unity, vastness, incomprehensibility'. Those are just terms that are used to ineptly describe the indescribable.
Hint: If it's easy to describe a realization in great detail, it wasn't actually a realization.
During a CC it's as if the circuitry of the intellect (which imagines reality divided into parts) gets bypassed for a period of time, and everything that happens, or is seen, is direct and unmediated by reflective thought. A common statement made by people following a CC is, "All meaning disappeared for a while." What they mean is that the intellectual overlay of meaning disappeared." IOW, there is absolute meaning and relative meaning, and relative meaning is dualistic.
That's an oxymoron. (and very telling in the sense that no one who has realized 'beyond mind' would say such a thiing). "Meaning" is always relative, mind-derived...mind assigned....experiential vs. realization.
This is an important admittance on your part though ZD. The fact that you believe there is 'absolute meaning' is akin to you saying there is 'absolute relativity, or absolute experience.' A complete and total nonsense.
After a CC, probably the most common statement people make is, "Reality is NOT what I thought it was," and this seems to fit your basic definition of what a realization is.
If you stopped there, it could be said that in tandem with a mystical experience, there was a realization. (It's important to see though that the mystical experience was NOT the realization...they remain distinct), However, you don't stop there, do you? You move from the seeing of what is not so, to a seeing of what is so, and you've even referenced that seeing of 'what is so,' to be more important, more powerful than the seeing of what is not so. That speaks volumes.
I assume that someone could have that same realization without a CC, but most of the people I've met who've had that particular realization have had it as a result of a CC.
Read more: spiritualteachers.proboards.com/thread/5427/tenka-stuff?page=149#ixzz6BPt7Qd7b
Read more: spiritualteachers.proboards.com/thread/5427/tenka-stuff?page=149#ixzz6BPt7Qd7b
The basic seeing through/realization of no separation has one coming away seeing that reality is not what he previously thought it was, doesn't it?
There is no special experience required to see through separation. The absence of separation does not actually appear materially within experience; Distinction (which is NOT separation) continues to appear but it's realized that the erroneous assumption of fundamental separation that for most, tags along with that appearance, is in fact, erroneous/false.
An experience where all apparent distinction dissolves, except for the one singular distinction of a unified field of aliveness, does not = the realization of no separation/Oneness. Oneness does not = a unification of distinction/appearing things.