Enigma
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 13,969
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Post by Enigma on Nov 8, 2019 2:14:42 GMT
If 'things about' reality are discovered, you can bet the farm on the fact that despite what you think happened, "self" was indeed at the party. The realization of Oneness is never 'the result' of any happening experientially. The very fact ZD that you think a CC/Kensho can be 'the cause' to SR, speaks clearly to the fact that your realization is incomplete at best, at worst, there was no actual seeing through. Wow. Really? So there are varying degrees now of the power of the realization of Oneness? Over and over ZD, you keep revealing that you look to experience to gauge realization. Again; Realization is an absence...a seeing through, not an addition. What you are failing to see is that It is very much the personal 'self' that comes back from such an 'event' to declare it 'powerful' and 'life changing.' All 'major realizations' are subtractive. If you have a seeing through following a particular experience, that's fine so long as you don't conflate the Truth of the realization with the content of the experience. And that's clearly what you ARE doing. There is a place for mystical, transcendent 'seeming' experiences....they can be powerful in terms of shifts in experience, but it's important not to conflate them with actual realizations that result in an absence/seeing through of knowledge. ZD fell in love with his spiritual experiences. It's understandable, they appeal to the feeling sense, but that's also what makes them so risky. Look what happened to Satch!
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Post by Figgles on Nov 8, 2019 2:53:18 GMT
If 'things about' reality are discovered, you can bet the farm on the fact that despite what you think happened, "self" was indeed at the party. The realization of Oneness is never 'the result' of any happening experientially. The very fact ZD that you think a CC/Kensho can be 'the cause' to SR, speaks clearly to the fact that your realization is incomplete at best, at worst, there was no actual seeing through. Wow. Really? So there are varying degrees now of the power of the realization of Oneness? Over and over ZD, you keep revealing that you look to experience to gauge realization. Again; Realization is an absence...a seeing through, not an addition. What you are failing to see is that It is very much the personal 'self' that comes back from such an 'event' to declare it 'powerful' and 'life changing.' All 'major realizations' are subtractive. If you have a seeing through following a particular experience, that's fine so long as you don't conflate the Truth of the realization with the content of the experience. And that's clearly what you ARE doing. There is a place for mystical, transcendent 'seeming' experiences....they can be powerful in terms of shifts in experience, but it's important not to conflate them with actual realizations that result in an absence/seeing through of knowledge. ZD fell in love with his spiritual experiences. It's understandable, they appeal to the feeling sense, but that's also what makes them so risky. Look what happened to Satch! Yup...the stickiest of wickets those awe-inspiring experiences are. I know all too well. And yes, Satchi is a prime example....the arising of "bliss" as his measuring stick for apprehension of Truth.
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Post by Figgles on Nov 9, 2019 18:00:58 GMT
Ah...again, just like Reefs, you too posit 'something that appears' prior to/beyond the appearance of solidity/matter. Regardless of whether 'what you perceive' appears to be form/matter, it too is 'appearance only.'
"Energy, feelings, senses" anything that is 'perceived', are all appearance only. You are positing a something that is 'absolute' that can be perceived, that is prior to the appearance of form/thingness. There is no such thing. You've simply taken a perceivable (that appears as a field of energy prior to matter) and mistaken it for something Truthy.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2019 2:41:38 GMT
ZD fell in love with his spiritual experiences. It's understandable, they appeal to the feeling sense, but that's also what makes them so risky. Look what happened to Satch! Yup...the stickiest of wickets those awe-inspiring experiences are. I know all too well. And yes, Satchi is a prime example....the arising of "bliss" as his measuring stick for apprehension of Truth. If you don't know Bliss you don't know anything about awakening.
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Post by Figgles on Nov 10, 2019 17:02:59 GMT
Yup...the stickiest of wickets those awe-inspiring experiences are. I know all too well. And yes, Satchi is a prime example....the arising of "bliss" as his measuring stick for apprehension of Truth. If you don't know Bliss you don't know anything about awakening. And are you asserting that this 'bliss' is experienced...? It is an arising feeling/emotion that is continually/constantly arising/appearing...that there is never not a moment of experience where you do not feel entirely 'blissful'? (which would mean, you never feel sad, angry, bored, irritated, frustrated?)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2019 17:15:56 GMT
If you don't know Bliss you don't know anything about awakening. And are you asserting that this 'bliss' is experienced...? It is an arising feeling/emotion that is continually/constantly arising/appearing...that there is never not a moment of experience where you do not feel entirely 'blissful'? (which would mean, you never feel sad, angry, bored, irritated, frustrated?) Is bliss experienced? It is if you want to use that word. Bliss is not at the same constant level all the time, but it is dominant. I never get bored. It is not possible.
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Post by Figgles on Nov 10, 2019 17:28:22 GMT
And are you asserting that this 'bliss' is experienced...? It is an arising feeling/emotion that is continually/constantly arising/appearing...that there is never not a moment of experience where you do not feel entirely 'blissful'? (which would mean, you never feel sad, angry, bored, irritated, frustrated?) Is bliss experienced? It is if you want to use that word. Bliss is not at the same constant level all the time, but it is dominant. I never get bored. It is not possible. That right there is different from you saying that bliss is constantly in the "foreground" of experience. And with "bliss" being the absolute tip-top of the emotional scale, inarguably the strongest of position feelings/emotions, is really does not make sense to speak of it ebbing in terms of level. So you never get bored....? But you DO clearly still get angry, right? Pure bliss (as an arising feeling) cannot abide a feeling that is any less than bliss. And therein lies the problem with you insisting that there is a super-duper special feeling that is constantly at the forefront of experience. That problem disappears when we speak about a Peace (that is ultimately an absence), that can abide all arising/surface feelings. Then we can have a foundational knowing that all is well, even amidst an arising sad feeling of losing something important, because a loved one has died.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2019 17:43:32 GMT
That problem disappears when we speak about a Peace (that is ultimately an absence), that can abide all arising/surface feelings. That's pure fiction. Where did you get this idea that there can be something constant like that. From other nondualist people? 😀
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Post by Figgles on Nov 10, 2019 18:39:52 GMT
That problem disappears when we speak about a Peace (that is ultimately an absence), that can abide all arising/surface feelings. That's pure fiction. Where did you get this idea that there can be something constant like that. From other nondualist people? 😀 What can be constant is an absence; An absence of identification....absence of separation. When that is absent, discordant feelings and all other appearances, regardless of whether there is personal liking of them or not, are always abided with a deep and pervading acceptance/allowance. That = "Unconditional Peace." And, it's important to see that that fundamental, abiding acceptance/allowance does not mean that I necessarily 'like' that circumstance that is arising, but it does mean that I see the fundamental perfection inherent in both liking and disliking, in all and any circumstance, in the very fact that experiences/appearances come and go, continually change, and that feelings in particular move up and down the emotional scale.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2019 18:55:03 GMT
That's pure fiction. Where did you get this idea that there can be something constant like that. From other nondualist people? 😀 What can be constant is an absence; An absence of identification....absence of separation. When that is absent, discordant feelings and all other appearances, regardless of whether there is personal liking of them or not, are always abided with a deep and pervading acceptance/allowance. That = "Unconditional Peace." And, it's important to see that that fundamental, abiding acceptance/allowance does not mean that I necessarily 'like' that circumstance that is arising, but it does mean that I see the fundamental perfection inherent in both liking and disliking, in all and any circumstance, in the very fact that experiences/appearances come and go, continually change, and that feelings in particular move up and down the emotional scale. What if you are only real person in the world? Will you be changing only the response to the corresponding situation ? Or will you be changing the entire circumstances so that your response will be altered ? Circumstances which you perceive is arising from your deeper level and it has its own response from the figgle individual.
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