Enigma
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Post by Enigma on Nov 4, 2019 0:23:17 GMT
Yup. I think ZD is clinging to the feeling and knowing quality of his spiritual experiences, and while they may convey these truths in such a way that they seem like new things learned, they're just unknowings framed by mind and expressed experientially as knowings. Another problem with deriving Truth from spiritual experiences is that the feeling component may also get translated into truths. (Everything is alive!) Yes, precisely. That's clearly what ZD is doing. It was evident early on when he kept bringing up the profound sense of awe he felt and how he found it telling that talk of 'not knowing' of 'emptiness' was devoid of any mention of awe, beauty, gratitude. It cannot be underestimated how sneaky mind can be, how quickly it can and will jump in to claim the absence of true realization and to turn it into something for itself. And I agree completely, while this can happen even with a bare-bones, subtractive/seeing through realization that has no or very little woo-woo component, a spiritual experience makes it almost a given that mind's framing of the subtractive seeing (if there was indeed even a subtractive seeing at all) will be mistaken for realization. What I find interesting about both ZD and Reefs is that they waffle between "Everything is alive," being a pointer vs. a tangible/material knowing. It's interesting to watch as mind steps back a bit, only to then re-assert itself again. What's really happening is they are slightly stepping away from 'knowing' into 'not knowing,' but then clutching back at knowing, as obviously the idea of the entire phenomenal world as completely empty and devoid of substantive Truth, is just too much for mind to fathom. And that really is the problem here. Mind is front row center, to what they are insisting is their realization of aliveness, but to see that 'aliveness' as a perceivable, something observable, experiencable, thus, not Truthy, would have to mean mind taking a back-seat. It's no surprise really that mind doesn't want to give up a beautiful, awe-inspiring field of aliveness for 'complete emptiness.' Ah, yes, I had forgotten about that. I remember thinking at the time it smelled a little fishy. Yes, I think yer right about that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2019 0:35:33 GMT
Oooops! Our prize fish has gone to ST now? Okay let me take some rest for some days! Will taking a rest get your prize fish back from ST? I didn't realize that the pet-a-frogery thread had been reopened till Figs reposted here from the thread. When I went to check it out I noticed that Figs had banned herself from the forum. No, I meant to say mostly conversation won't move here if you are not present here.
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Enigma
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 13,969
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Post by Enigma on Nov 4, 2019 0:39:03 GMT
Will taking a rest get your prize fish back from ST? I didn't realize that the pet-a-frogery thread had been reopened till Figs reposted here from the thread. When I went to check it out I noticed that Figs had banned herself from the forum. No, I meant to say mostly conversation won't move here if you are not present here. I'd say Figs is the primary instigator fish here.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2019 0:44:10 GMT
No, I meant to say mostly conversation won't move here if you are not present here. I'd say Figs is the primary instigator fish here. nope, only you and me. I sometimes observe that if you or I are not present here, conversation completely stops here. And also I observe that only when one among them participate there in ST , conversation moves there otherwise ST is completely sleeping. Now ST is active because you are there and few days ago, ST was active because figgles was there. But figgles deleted her account because of reefs. After figgles deleted her account, conversation stopped, now once again it's active because you are there.
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Enigma
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 13,969
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Post by Enigma on Nov 4, 2019 1:10:03 GMT
I'd say Figs is the primary instigator fish here. nope, only you and me. I sometimes observe that if you or I are not present here, conversation completely stops here. And also I observe that only when one among them participate there in ST , conversation moves there otherwise ST is completely sleeping. Now ST is active because you are there and few days ago, ST was active because figgles was there. But figgles deleted her account because of reefs. After figgles deleted her account, conversation stopped, now once again it's active because you are there. Well, trouble makers get peeps talking.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2019 1:59:24 GMT
nope, only you and me. I sometimes observe that if you or I are not present here, conversation completely stops here. And also I observe that only when one among them participate there in ST , conversation moves there otherwise ST is completely sleeping. Now ST is active because you are there and few days ago, ST was active because figgles was there. But figgles deleted her account because of reefs. After figgles deleted her account, conversation stopped, now once again it's active because you are there. Well, trouble makers get peeps talking. Concept is pretty simple. Where there is a disagreement, there is an argument. But in ST nobody disagrees with other.Only when one among them arrive there, there is a disagreement and there is an argument. Here we find argument because you and me and you and satch and I and satch finds disagreement. Argument doesn't move between you and figgles because you both agree with each other so strongly.
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Enigma
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 13,969
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Post by Enigma on Nov 4, 2019 14:25:03 GMT
Well, trouble makers get peeps talking. Concept is pretty simple. Where there is a disagreement, there is an argument. But in ST nobody disagrees with other.Only when one among them arrive there, there is a disagreement and there is an argument. Here we find argument because you and me and you and satch and I and satch finds disagreement. Argument doesn't move between you and figgles because you both agree with each other so strongly. Yup, they've cleaned up ST to the point where they bore themselves with their agreement.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2019 15:39:18 GMT
I'd say Figs is the primary instigator fish here. nope, only you and me. I sometimes observe that if you or I are not present here, conversation completely stops here. And also I observe that only when one among them participate there in ST , conversation moves there otherwise ST is completely sleeping. Now ST is active because you are there and few days ago, ST was active because figgles was there. But figgles deleted her account because of reefs. After figgles deleted her account, conversation stopped, now once again it's active because you are there. Perhaps one of the most truthful statements I've read on either forum. The yin and yang? Or mind agitating? Have to admit these conflicts attract my attention, my interest. The personalities are like different toppings on an ice cream cone. It just seems to get acrimonious, but even then it's interesting. I think it should be encouraged as Satch and Figs suggested on ST. I applaud gab for doing so.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2019 16:45:51 GMT
I don't recall having to do any kind of sadhanas or meditation or yoga after squirming out of somebody's hoo hoo many years ago. That particular here-and-now was just perfect then, as it is now, and self-sufficient beyond any possibility of description. Who's zooming who?
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Post by Figgles on Nov 4, 2019 16:46:43 GMT
Oooops! Our prize fish has gone to ST now? Okay let me take some rest for some days! Will taking a rest get your prize fish back from ST? I didn't realize that the pet-a-frogery thread had been reopened till Figs reposted here from the thread. When I went to check it out I noticed that Figs had banned herself from the forum. Yup. Figured a true banning was imminent....and While I've come to see that so long as Reefs is moderating, conversations will be under tight control, (thus, the enjoyment for me is limited there) I do still enjoy reading posts on ST, with the possibility of copying and pasting over here, where I can respond spontaneously and as I see fit. In the past when my IP was banned there, I couldn't even get in to read without using a proxy server, which hides the real IP... and that's somewhat of a pain in the arse.....thus, I figured I'd get outta dodge before the sh*t hit the fan....take my IP with me.
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