Enigma
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 13,969
|
Post by Enigma on Oct 6, 2019 23:30:03 GMT
You're disturbing my perpetual bliss! While perhaps no outright bliss....Here's one that might invoke a chuckle: **Bliss slowly returning***
|
|
|
Post by Figgles on Oct 6, 2019 23:36:04 GMT
While perhaps no outright bliss....Here's one that might invoke a chuckle: **Bliss slowly returning***
|
|
Enigma
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 13,969
|
Post by Enigma on Oct 6, 2019 23:53:54 GMT
There is nothing 'intellectual' at all in the seeing through of identification with that which appears...that which is limited/bound. And that 'end of identification' is really what's at the helm of the discrimination between that which exists in it's own right and that which arises dependent upon that. To see that there is no separation between Being and that which arises to/within Being does not mean going back to identification with ephemeral arisings as you seem to be suggesting. Oh my goodness....so you equate realization with a practice that offers a direct experience? Realization cannot be practiced into Being, regardless of how much the person might hope that is so. The distinction between that which is foundational and that which arises dependent upon that, is not 'separation.' In SR there is nothing that requires 'integration.' "Abiding in Source" is not something that comes once there is SR. The realization of Self = the end of abidance in mind/appearances. It's a profound shift that 'abides' all arising experience. I am actually NOT 'resistance to practice' per se, at all. My point is simply that practice does not cause SR. I meditated for years, starting way back in my teens and am pleased to see both my teens now gravitating towards meditation regularly. The direct experience of the transcendent/true nature does not require a practice, process or conscious quieting of mind once mind has been seen for what it is and has thus, taken a back-seat. Once that has happened, 'true nature' is always at the forefront. The sages and the scriptures have also affirmed that no effort is necessary...that there is no path.....why do you resist that? Nisargadatta It's easy to find quotes from Nisargadatta to suggest that there is no need for practice but unfortunately he's not a consistent and reliable teacher. I can show you quotes where he obviously does say the practice is important. He himself practiced consistently for 3 years until he was realized and he speaks of his progress during that time.You are wrong to say that the sages and scriptures do not recommend practice. You are just dead wrong! I could provide plenty of evidence but I just can't be bothered. As for your comments to my post, I tried a few times to write a reply and I just had to give up because what you're saying is just mental gobbledygook. It's just wordplay that has no basis in actual experience. You're telling me that there are no practices for the realized and I know that because it's the end of practice. I'm talking about seekers and you keep talking about what you imagine to be realization. What a complete waste of time! I'm talking about getting on an airplane to fly to the Bahamas and you're telling me that in the Bahamas you don't need any airplanes. Good God! They're both true. From the position of the seeker, practice provides a map that leads you from your Home, through the woods, and back to your front door where you seemingly arrive again for the first time. From the position of the sage it's obvious that none of that wandering in the woods actually helped you to find the place from which you began. That's all that Niz is saying, and all that we're saying. If you need to wander in the woods, happy wandering. Nobody has tried to stop you from doing what you need to do to recognize that you have always been Home.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2019 2:14:30 GMT
They're both true. From the position of the seeker, practice provides a map that leads you from your Home, through the woods, and back to your front door where you seemingly arrive again for the first time. From the position of the sage it's obvious that none of that wandering in the woods actually helped you to find the place from which you began. That's all that Niz is saying, and all that we're saying. If you need to wander in the woods, happy wandering. Nobody has tried to stop you from doing what you need to do to recognize that you have always been Home. It doesn't matter how you spin it, what that statement says to me is that there is a practice path to Self realization. A sage would never say that spiritual practice didn't help, but would say that you have always being the Self, but the knowledge of it was veiled by the state of ignorance.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2019 3:54:02 GMT
True transcendence lies beyond all experience... Yes and that's what the practice of transcendental meditation revealed very quickly and it was the practice path towards realization. It just doesn't happen by itself.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2019 4:01:42 GMT
So, if he's not a reliable teacher, why tell me that he at times says practice is important? You're contradicting your point about him being unreliable in touting that as though it means something...same with his talk about practicing himself. That's a false conclusion. If someone is unreliable it doesn't necessarily mean they are unreliable all of the time. And you also have to add the additional factor of translation issues. Nisargadatta didn't write "I am That". It was written by a westerner based on editorial selections of English translations of what he said. It is perfectly legitimate for me to pick out the bits that correspond with my own experience and declare them to be true.
|
|
muttley
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 4,394
|
Post by muttley on Oct 7, 2019 9:02:17 GMT
It's easy to find quotes from Nisargadatta to suggest that there is no need for practice but unfortunately he's not a consistent and reliable teacher. I can show you quotes where he obviously does say the practice is important. He himself practiced consistently for 3 years until he was realized and he speaks of his progress during that time.You are wrong to say that the sages and scriptures do not recommend practice. You are just dead wrong! I could provide plenty of evidence but I just can't be bothered. As for your comments to my post, I tried a few times to write a reply and I just had to give up because what you're saying is just mental gobbledygook. It's just wordplay that has no basis in actual experience. You're telling me that there are no practices for the realized and I know that because it's the end of practice. I'm talking about seekers and you keep talking about what you imagine to be realization. What a complete waste of time! I'm talking about getting on an airplane to fly to the Bahamas and you're telling me that in the Bahamas you don't need any airplanes. Good God! They're both true. From the position of the seeker, practice provides a map that leads you from your Home, through the woods, and back to your front door where you seemingly arrive again for the first time. From the position of the sage it's obvious that none of that wandering in the woods actually helped you to find the place from which you began. That's all that Niz is saying, and all that we're saying. If you need to wander in the woods, happy wandering. Nobody has tried to stop you from doing what you need to do to recognize that you have always been Home. Niz was actually incredibly consistent in his dialogs. The apparent contradictions only arise in seeker-mind that can't distinguish existential context. And the words have to be literally taken out of the context of the specific dialogs they were spoken in, at that. He'd tell all the proud or disillusioned super-yogi's who where trying to work and pray and meditate their way to nirvana that they simply didn't know that they were already here and now and infinite. He'd tell people who were confused or genuinely curious or sorrowful or hopeless to attend the sense of being without regard to anything else.
|
|
muttley
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 4,394
|
Post by muttley on Oct 7, 2019 9:44:57 GMT
That's the spirit!! snow's gonna' be flyin' soon. Got yer shovels ready?? There's a vibe to the flakes as they fall .. isn't it a sort of compliment to the hard parabola's of summer? The Titleist's, they sail proudly as to the song of the driver, but the crystals of winter, they wend their way down from the sky in all sorts of different ways. Sometimes, aimlessly and gently, other times in a ganged-up, wind-driven fury. All to water next spring's lawn.
|
|
Enigma
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 13,969
|
Post by Enigma on Oct 7, 2019 13:30:32 GMT
They're both true. From the position of the seeker, practice provides a map that leads you from your Home, through the woods, and back to your front door where you seemingly arrive again for the first time. From the position of the sage it's obvious that none of that wandering in the woods actually helped you to find the place from which you began. That's all that Niz is saying, and all that we're saying. If you need to wander in the woods, happy wandering. Nobody has tried to stop you from doing what you need to do to recognize that you have always been Home. It doesn't matter how you spin it, what that statement says to me is that there is a practice path to Self realization. A sage would never say that spiritual practice didn't help, but would say that you have always being the Self, but the knowledge of it was veiled by the state of ignorance. I've never had a problem with a properly motivated practice, just pointing to the simplicity of the recognition that does not require a practice. Mind always wants to complicate.
|
|
Enigma
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 13,969
|
Post by Enigma on Oct 7, 2019 13:34:21 GMT
True transcendence lies beyond all experience... Yes and that's what the practice of transcendental meditation revealed very quickly and it was the practice path towards realization. It just doesn't happen by itself.Right, it requires sincerity, honesty, devotion. They are states of being rather than activities of doing.
|
|