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Post by Figgles on Mar 12, 2022 2:11:02 GMT
I "advocate" inquiry for anyone truly interested in being consciously aware of mind's content. That generally means at least the modicum of clarity required to see that perhaps there is important stuff, going unseen. The thing is though, anyone truly, sincerely interested in such clarity is not really going to require someone to advocate to them that they should do, for inquiry to just naturally happen, That second sentence cleverly gets you out of having to sound like you are pro practice and a doer. Nice one! It's not about "being clever," it's about "being clear." |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2022 5:59:38 GMT
That second sentence cleverly gets you out of having to sound like you are pro practice and a doer. Nice one! It's not about "being clever," it's about "being clear." Meditation brings clarity. |
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Post by Figgles on Mar 12, 2022 6:25:47 GMT
It's not about "being clever," it's about "being clear." Meditation brings clarity. There is nothing that "brings/causes" clarity. Clarity can happen in the blink of eye, in someone who has been delusional all his life, and someone can meditate his whole life and still be delusional as fuck. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2022 6:34:45 GMT
Meditation brings clarity. There is nothing that "brings/causes" clarity. Clarity can happen in the blink of eye, in someone who has been delusional all his life, and someone can meditate his whole life and still be delusional as fuck. Yeah you could eat donuts every day and live until you're 80 and someone else could eat the perfect diet and go to the gym everyday and drop dead at 30. But the advice would probably still be lay off the donuts. |
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Post by Figgles on Mar 12, 2022 6:39:45 GMT
There is nothing that "brings/causes" clarity. Clarity can happen in the blink of eye, in someone who has been delusional all his life, and someone can meditate his whole life and still be delusional as fuck. Yeah you could eat donuts every day and live until you're 80 and someone else could eat the perfect diet and go to the gym everyday and drop dead at 30. But the advice would probably still be lay off the donuts. What's the 'wake-up' rate of the folks you teach meditation to? In a given 3 year period, how many students do you teach and what percentage of them actually Self realize/wake up? |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2022 6:44:35 GMT
Yeah you could eat donuts every day and live until you're 80 and someone else could eat the perfect diet and go to the gym everyday and drop dead at 30. But the advice would probably still be lay off the donuts. What's the 'wake-up' rate of the folks you teach meditation to? In a given 3 year period, how many students do you teach and what percentage of them actually Self realize/wake up? Oh that old chestnut! I don't see the point since you don't know what Self-realization actually is. Why don't you think about someone you know of. Nisargadatta practiced meditation and woke up after 3 years. I'm sure you've read his account. What you and 99% other followers of non-duality call Awakening is not SR. |
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Post by Figgles on Mar 12, 2022 6:50:47 GMT
What's the 'wake-up' rate of the folks you teach meditation to? In a given 3 year period, how many students do you teach and what percentage of them actually Self realize/wake up? Oh that old chestnut! I don't see the point since you don't know what Self-realization actually is. Why don't you think about someone you know of. Nisargadatta practiced meditation and woke up after 3 years. I'm sure you've read his account. What you and 99% other followers of non-duality call Awakening is not SR. And, he's very clear that the relationship between the practice and waking up was not, & by virtue of what is actually so, cannot be, causal. "Liberation is not the result of some means skilfully applied, nor of circumstances. It is beyond the causal process. Nothing can compel it, nothing can prevent it." |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2022 6:59:18 GMT
Oh that old chestnut! I don't see the point since you don't know what Self-realization actually is. Why don't you think about someone you know of. Nisargadatta practiced meditation and woke up after 3 years. I'm sure you've read his account. What you and 99% other followers of non-duality call Awakening is not SR. And, he's very clear that the relationship between the practice and waking up was not, & by virtue of what is actually so, cannot be, causal. "Liberation is not the result of some means skilfully applied, nor of circumstances. It is beyond the causal process. Nothing can compel it, nothing can prevent it." Yes of course Niz is correct because his meditation did not have the aim of causing something. Anyone who has meditated for some time realizes that. Meditation is an undoing. |
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Post by Figgles on Mar 13, 2022 2:50:01 GMT
And, he's very clear that the relationship between the practice and waking up was not, & by virtue of what is actually so, cannot be, causal. "Liberation is not the result of some means skilfully applied, nor of circumstances. It is beyond the causal process. Nothing can compel it, nothing can prevent it." Yes of course Niz is correct because his meditation did not have the aim of causing something. Anyone who has meditated for some time realizes that. Meditation is an undoing. No, that's not WHY Niz is correct. It's irrelevant whether or not there's an aim to cause SR via mediation...plain and simply, SR is beyond the casual process. No exceptions.
There's a huge and important difference between a present "meditative" moment vs. the idea that you are going to commit to a practice/process of formal, ongoing meditation. So many who engage long-term in formal mediation practice, have developed an entire narrative and identity surrounding that (spiriutal ego)....so rather than mediation then being an undoing or a seeing through, it actually adds to the baggage of personal identity. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2022 3:10:13 GMT
No, that's not WHY Niz is correct. It's irrelevant whether or not there's an aim to cause SR via mediation...plain and simply, SR is beyond the casual process. No exceptions. Yes SR is beyond the causal process and that is revealed by meditation. Niz's practice revealed that was the case which is precisely why he said what he said. He wasn't able to make that statement before his realization at the time he was given the instruction to meditate by his guru. His practice revealed that truth in time. "I simply followed (my teacher's) instruction which was to focus the mind on pure being 'I am', and stay in it. I used to sit for hours together, with nothing but the 'I am' in my mind and soon peace and joy and a deep all-embracing love became my normal state. In it all disappeared -- myself, my Guru, the life I lived, the world around me. Only peace remained and unfathomable silence." - Nisargadatta Maharaj So many who engage long-term in formal mediation practice, have developed an entire narrative and identity surrounding that (spiriutal ego) Yes that can certainly happen which is why it is important to get proper guidance and instruction, preferably from someone who is Self-realized. I have met many for whom meditation became a kind of spiritual badge which led to them having feelings of superiority as a meditator. But this is not the fault of meditation per se. |
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