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Post by Figgles on May 2, 2017 20:11:38 GMT
I love what Jeff Foster says about this in his article entitled; WHY THE IMPERSONAL DOES NOT ‘EXIST’The birth and death of fundamentalism in nonduality and Advaita teachings.: Some who get caught upon in nonduality teachings become attached to the idea that they are now beyond or above 'the personal.' From this entrenched position, they proudly and often snidely, mock those who they deem to be still operating and experiencing as a dreaded "person." I've noticed that The belief that I am no longer 'a person' often results in the appearance of an aszhole.  I recall arriving on a spiritual forum, several years ago, to talk about the experience of joy, to be confronted with the accusation; "yeah, but you're still a person," as though the fact that I still engaged with personal stories and cared about the quality of my experience was some kind of crime. Those who eschew the personal in favor of "The Impersonal, are somehow failing to see that there really is no separating the two. Absent expression through the personal, the impersonal has no existence....is just an empty idea referencing some no-thing. Coming full circle means seeing the impersonal in the personal, and to do that, you cannot eschew the personal. If you find yourself speaking snidely of 'people-peeps,' from a position of being very sure you are not one, you would do well to look into that. |
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Andrew
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Post by Andrew on May 2, 2017 22:29:35 GMT
Yeah that's a very very good point. Yes, is one way, there is ONLY the personal. And the non dual exploration boils down to interest in the nature of our experience, which is obviously personal. We make up abstract concepts, none of which refer to anything that tangibly exists. We can taste an orange, feel joy and sadness, smell a flower, hear music. And if every sensory experience associated with the outer world was removed from us, I suspect that there could still be a felt sense of love. All tangible, all personally experienced.
It seems to me that the real value of abstract concepts and ideas that come with non duality is to challenge previously held conditioned ideas. In a way, we make up new ideas to get rid of old ideas. But because of the nature of our old ideas, we might attach to,and elevate, the new ideas hehe. I guess eventually it just gets boring, and simple joys of life are enough. Maybe that's what happened with Jeff.
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Andrew
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Posts: 8,345
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Post by Andrew on May 2, 2017 22:31:11 GMT
I love what Jeff Foster says about this in his article entitled; WHY THE IMPERSONAL DOES NOT ‘EXIST’The birth and death of fundamentalism in nonduality and Advaita teachings.: Some who get caught upon in nonduality teachings become attached to the idea that they are now beyond or above 'the personal.' From this entrenched position, they proudly and often snidely, mock those who they deem to be still operating and experiencing as a dreaded "person." I've noticed that The belief that I am no longer 'a person' often results in the appearance of an aszhole. I recall arriving on a spiritual forum, several years ago, to talk about the experience of joy, to be confronted with the accusation; "yeah, but you're still a person," as though the fact that I still engaged with personal stories and cared about the quality of my experience was some kind of crime. Those who eschew the personal in favor of "The Impersonal, are somehow failing to see that there really is no separating the two. Absent expression through the personal, the impersonal has no existence....is just an empty idea referencing some no-thing. Coming full circle means seeing the impersonal in the personal, and to do that, you cannot eschew the personal. If you find yourself speaking snidely of 'people-peeps,' from a position of being very sure you are not one, you would do well to look into that. ****** I can't quote you haha. There are no [ ] appearing! Gopal will be cross with me he he. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2017 10:19:19 GMT
Yeah that's a very very good point. Yes, is one way, there is ONLY the personal. And the non dual exploration boils down to interest in the nature of our experience, which is obviously personal. We make up abstract concepts, none of which refer to anything that tangibly exists. We can taste an orange, feel joy and sadness, smell a flower, hear music. And if every sensory experience associated with the outer world was removed from us, I suspect that there could still be a felt sense of love. All tangible, all personally experienced. It seems to me that the real value of abstract concepts and ideas that come with non duality is to challenge previously held conditioned ideas. In a way, we make up new ideas to get rid of old ideas. But because of the nature of our old ideas, we might attach to,and elevate, the new ideas hehe. I guess eventually it just gets boring, and simple joys of life are enough. Maybe that's what happened with Jeff. CAN'T YOU QUOTEEEEEE ?  LOL LOL  |
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2017 10:38:20 GMT
I love what Jeff Foster says about this in his article entitled; WHY THE IMPERSONAL DOES NOT ‘EXIST’The birth and death of fundamentalism in nonduality and Advaita teachings.: Some who get caught upon in nonduality teachings become attached to the idea that they are now beyond or above 'the personal.' From this entrenched position, they proudly and often snidely, mock those who they deem to be still operating and experiencing as a dreaded "person." I've noticed that The belief that I am no longer 'a person' often results in the appearance of an aszhole. I recall arriving on a spiritual forum, several years ago, to talk about the experience of joy, to be confronted with the accusation; "yeah, but you're still a person," as though the fact that I still engaged with personal stories and cared about the quality of my experience was some kind of crime. Those who eschew the personal in favor of "The Impersonal, are somehow failing to see that there really is no separating the two. Absent expression through the personal, the impersonal has no existence....is just an empty idea referencing some no-thing. Coming full circle means seeing the impersonal in the personal, and to do that, you cannot eschew the personal. If you find yourself speaking snidely of 'people-peeps,' from a position of being very sure you are not one, you would do well to look into that. Oh Yeah! Good find Figs!. The realty of duality IS Unity. Looks like a good place to copy/paste one of my fave insights on this 'matter'..... "There is 100% diversity and one hundred percent unity, both performing their work at the same time. That is the nature of the work of creation- this is true reality. To us, one seems real and the other unreal. The reality is that both are real at the same time. As water is true, so ice is true. Both are quite opposed to each other, and yet their affinity is so great that the ice cannot exist without the water- it is water and nothing but water. So unity and diversity are there together and at the same time." Maharishi Mahesh Yogi Deepak followed up on this insight by saying- "The highest goal of existence, then, is to achieve "Two hundred percent of life." The human nervous system can accomplish this because it is flexible enough to appreciate both the diversity of life, which is infinite but full of boundaries, and the unified state, which is equally infinite, but completely unbounded. Just from a logical standpoint, no other possibility could exist. No one was given a cosmic computer and told, "You can only use half of it." No one gave us any limitations on the patterns of intelligence we can make, blend, expand, and inhabit. Life is a field of unlimited possibilities. Such is the glory of total flexibility in the human nervous system." Now, I suppose someone could turn this into a greasy little spot if they wish, but it's pointless to do so. Rock On Sistah!!!  |
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2017 11:17:06 GMT
I love what Jeff Foster says about this in his article entitled; WHY THE IMPERSONAL DOES NOT ‘EXIST’The birth and death of fundamentalism in nonduality and Advaita teachings.: Some who get caught upon in nonduality teachings become attached to the idea that they are now beyond or above 'the personal.' From this entrenched position, they proudly and often snidely, mock those who they deem to be still operating and experiencing as a dreaded "person." I've noticed that The belief that I am no longer 'a person' often results in the appearance of an aszhole. I recall arriving on a spiritual forum, several years ago, to talk about the experience of joy, to be confronted with the accusation; "yeah, but you're still a person," as though the fact that I still engaged with personal stories and cared about the quality of my experience was some kind of crime. Those who eschew the personal in favor of "The Impersonal, are somehow failing to see that there really is no separating the two. Absent expression through the personal, the impersonal has no existence....is just an empty idea referencing some no-thing. Coming full circle means seeing the impersonal in the personal, and to do that, you cannot eschew the personal. If you find yourself speaking snidely of 'people-peeps,' from a position of being very sure you are not one, you would do well to look into that. There is no such thing called personal, it doesn't exist, only Impersonal Consciousness exist and this impersonal consciousness itself is the looker, when it look at a perception, It misidentified as person through that perception. |
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2017 11:40:26 GMT
I love what Jeff Foster says about this in his article entitled; WHY THE IMPERSONAL DOES NOT ‘EXIST’The birth and death of fundamentalism in nonduality and Advaita teachings.: Some who get caught upon in nonduality teachings become attached to the idea that they are now beyond or above 'the personal.' From this entrenched position, they proudly and often snidely, mock those who they deem to be still operating and experiencing as a dreaded "person." I've noticed that The belief that I am no longer 'a person' often results in the appearance of an aszhole. I recall arriving on a spiritual forum, several years ago, to talk about the experience of joy, to be confronted with the accusation; "yeah, but you're still a person," as though the fact that I still engaged with personal stories and cared about the quality of my experience was some kind of crime. Those who eschew the personal in favor of "The Impersonal, are somehow failing to see that there really is no separating the two. Absent expression through the personal, the impersonal has no existence....is just an empty idea referencing some no-thing. Coming full circle means seeing the impersonal in the personal, and to do that, you cannot eschew the personal. If you find yourself speaking snidely of 'people-peeps,' from a position of being very sure you are not one, you would do well to look into that. There is no such thing called personal, it doesn't exist, only Impersonal Consciousness exist and this impersonal consciousness itself is the looker, when it look at a perception, It misidentified as person through that perception. Good morning, Gopal Personal and Impersonal are just attempts to describe though, right? They're both just labels. So, I suppose we could say the Impersonal doesn't exist either for that reason. It's just an attempt to describe. Words fail beyond mind. I sense this is why the whole no-thingness/now thingness is so difficult to talk about. Form and emptiness, emptiness and form. One intelligence energy might be good. Or Source energy... |
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2017 11:49:31 GMT
....Singularity
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2017 11:52:57 GMT
....Dare we say........ Love?
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2017 12:17:51 GMT
Yeah that's a very very good point. Yes, is one way, there is ONLY the personal. And the non dual exploration boils down to interest in the nature of our experience, which is obviously personal. We make up abstract concepts, none of which refer to anything that tangibly exists. We can taste an orange, feel joy and sadness, smell a flower, hear music. And if every sensory experience associated with the outer world was removed from us, I suspect that there could still be a felt sense of love. All tangible, all personally experienced. It seems to me that the real value of abstract concepts and ideas that come with non duality is to challenge previously held conditioned ideas. In a way, we make up new ideas to get rid of old ideas. But because of the nature of our old ideas, we might attach to,and elevate, the new ideas hehe. I guess eventually it just gets boring, and simple joys of life are enough. Maybe that's what happened with Jeff. All are inner! |
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