Tenka
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 3,647 
|
Post by Tenka on Jul 9, 2017 9:25:34 GMT
How does a realization apply to a conceptual belief . What is a conceptual belief based upon? The realization or not? Taking the sun as an example through direct experience of it one conceptualises what one has realized . Source implies that he/she has no belief system and can't know anything about how the universe works cos that's not how it is . It's not what it is, and yet bold as brass Source has endless info about what is, isn't this or that . And with this info about what isn't he/she doesn't believe what he/she know to be correct as he/she can't know anything or believe anything .. Doesn't add up even when i explain that what we call a rock still falls to the ground regardless of what we call a rock or regardless of why a rock falls . It just does because of how it is in relation to what it is and it's environment . I believe a rock under certain conditions will always fall to the ground when thrown .. For some reason Source can't answer / relate to that actually happening and believing that it happened . I'm not defending Source's not knowing mantra. This too shall pass. But you're using realization differently. Do you think self realization refers to an experiential understanding that becomes a belief? I am not sure what all the confusion is about and I am not sure where S.R. comes into it . I have laid out very simple examples of perceiving and believing what is perceived . You sit in the sun and your perceive the sun . You identify the sun and believe it is the source / reason for your skin burning . Source implies the sun isn't the sun and doesn't know anything or believe anything .. it's pants and completely untrue . A self realised chap like niz, still identifies with self, the cigarette and believes that he is smoking a cigarette . He knows the difference between a carrot and a cigarette . He doesn't say I don't know anything and then teach devotees the inns and out's of Self realisation .. I don't understand why anyone would try and deny there own understandings and beliefs regarding their life experiences . If such a peep expresses that what they perceive is not real or not how it actually is, must have a belief in how it really is . If they can't know anything then they can't know anything . This is why it doesn't add up .. Perhaps I am the only one who see's that is doesn't . |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2017 15:11:34 GMT
I'm experiencing what is happening not minding what is happening. Seeing, feeling, hearing, and sensing as opposed to experiencing the minds labeling of seeing, feeling, hearing, and sensing. Those labels don't refer to something that actually exists. That is a mindful construct that relates to what is happening within your experience . This is how you suppose your perception / experience of life is . This is something that you said that you can't do . You are doing what you say cannot be done . You still don't answer me if you acknowledge your flaw or if you are oblivious to it . Every post you make explaining things how it is, is not how it is based upon your own theory . Has the penny dropped yet or are you just going to carry on making posts with your beliefs in toe? Experiencing the sense of seeing is how I suppose it is? Are you believing 7 billion people are supposing it differently? Or isn't it that 7 billion people share the exact same sense of seeing? What is seen may vary, but it's the same sense of seeing, sense of hearing, etc. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2017 15:48:37 GMT
You already know enough about everything so why are you asking me? I don't know anything?  No worries I won't ask you again .. You saying you don't know anything is saying you know you don't know . You obviously don't know what your talking about . When your skin is burning in the sun you don't know your skin is burning lol . It's a load of krap .. and you know it is, excuse the pun . "You saying you don't know anything is saying you know you don't know". I don't know anything about anything outside the experience of the senses making contact with Reality. Where you believe what that Reality 'is' is what someone told you it is. Believing what someone told you it is, is not what it 'is'. I am talking about your actual experience and you are talking about the 'belief' about what you are experiencing. Are you with me so far? |
|
Tenka
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 3,647
|
Post by Tenka on Jul 9, 2017 18:22:30 GMT
That is a mindful construct that relates to what is happening within your experience . This is how you suppose your perception / experience of life is . This is something that you said that you can't do . You are doing what you say cannot be done . You still don't answer me if you acknowledge your flaw or if you are oblivious to it . Every post you make explaining things how it is, is not how it is based upon your own theory . Has the penny dropped yet or are you just going to carry on making posts with your beliefs in toe? Experiencing the sense of seeing is how I suppose it is? Are you believing 7 billion people are supposing it differently? Or isn't it that 7 billion people share the exact same sense of seeing? What is seen may vary, but it's the same sense of seeing, sense of hearing, etc. Why the question marks . You have already stated what you know . Why are you going down a route of questioning? Are you aware that you are avoiding acknowledging your own theory? Can you answer my questions or are we going down the same route again where you avoid answering them? |
|
Tenka
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 3,647
|
Post by Tenka on Jul 9, 2017 18:27:37 GMT
No worries I won't ask you again .. You saying you don't know anything is saying you know you don't know . You obviously don't know what your talking about . When your skin is burning in the sun you don't know your skin is burning lol . It's a load of krap .. and you know it is, excuse the pun . "You saying you don't know anything is saying you know you don't know". I don't know anything about anything outside the experience of the senses making contact with Reality. Where you believe what that Reality 'is' is what someone told you it is. Believing what someone told you it is, is not what it 'is'. I am talking about your actual experience and you are talking about the 'belief' about what you are experiencing. Are you with me so far? Now your changing your tune .  Who has been saying anything about outside of your reality . I have been speaking about buses coming towards you and sunburn . When I spoke of perceiving / believing in perception as being automatic / instant (give or take a tenth of a second) you deny your own belief system in regards to experience and what is happening . When I ask you about knowing if the sun is hot and sunbathing you decline to answer stating you don't know or believe . It has never added up, that's why your now whistling a different tune . |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2017 22:50:16 GMT
Experiencing the sense of seeing is how I suppose it is? Are you believing 7 billion people are supposing it differently? Or isn't it that 7 billion people share the exact same sense of seeing? What is seen may vary, but it's the same sense of seeing, sense of hearing, etc. Why the question marks . You have already stated what you know . Why are you going down a route of questioning? Are you aware that you are avoiding acknowledging your own theory? Can you answer my questions or are we going down the same route again where you avoid answering them? I can't help it if you aren't satisfied with my answers to your questions. So unless you want to discuss your experience more deeply, rather then the thoughts about it, our conversation is over. |
|
Enigma
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 13,969
|
Post by Enigma on Jul 10, 2017 2:11:57 GMT
I'm not defending Source's not knowing mantra. This too shall pass. But you're using realization differently. Do you think self realization refers to an experiential understanding that becomes a belief? I am not sure what all the confusion is about and I am not sure where S.R. comes into it . I have laid out very simple examples of perceiving and believing what is perceived . You sit in the sun and your perceive the sun . You identify the sun and believe it is the source / reason for your skin burning . Source implies the sun isn't the sun and doesn't know anything or believe anything .. it's pants and completely untrue . A self realised chap like niz, still identifies with self, the cigarette and believes that he is smoking a cigarette . He knows the difference between a carrot and a cigarette . He doesn't say I don't know anything and then teach devotees the inns and out's of Self realisation .. I don't understand why anyone would try and deny there own understandings and beliefs regarding their life experiences . If such a peep expresses that what they perceive is not real or not how it actually is, must have a belief in how it really is . If they can't know anything then they can't know anything . This is why it doesn't add up .. Perhaps I am the only one who see's that is doesn't . Oh, seriously?  |
|
Tenka
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 3,647
|
Post by Tenka on Jul 10, 2017 7:04:41 GMT
Why the question marks . You have already stated what you know . Why are you going down a route of questioning? Are you aware that you are avoiding acknowledging your own theory? Can you answer my questions or are we going down the same route again where you avoid answering them? I can't help it if you aren't satisfied with my answers to your questions. So unless you want to discuss your experience more deeply, rather then the thoughts about it, our conversation is over. As always you avoid my questions . You have demonstrated this time and time again . You have done so in this very post . I am not sure how one can get to any depth of conversation with you when you avoid the questions and you don't believe what you perceive in regards to them and you don't believe you know how anything works . How can there be any satisfactory conversation had with such tactics in toe? It's a little weird innit . Have you tried having a convo with yourself? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2017 16:17:39 GMT
I can't help it if you aren't satisfied with my answers to your questions. So unless you want to discuss your experience more deeply, rather then the thoughts about it, our conversation is over. As always you avoid my questions . You have demonstrated this time and time again . You have done so in this very post . I am not sure how one can get to any depth of conversation with you when you avoid the questions and you don't believe what you perceive in regards to them and you don't believe you know how anything works . How can there be any satisfactory conversation had with such tactics in toe? It's a little weird innit . Have you tried having a convo with yourself? Have you considered that this conversation is only appearing in my experience. Including the thought that you exist outside of it? Is it the same experience for you? |
|
Tenka
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 3,647
|
Post by Tenka on Jul 11, 2017 8:20:37 GMT
As always you avoid my questions . You have demonstrated this time and time again . You have done so in this very post . I am not sure how one can get to any depth of conversation with you when you avoid the questions and you don't believe what you perceive in regards to them and you don't believe you know how anything works . How can there be any satisfactory conversation had with such tactics in toe? It's a little weird innit . Have you tried having a convo with yourself? Have you considered that this conversation is only appearing in my experience. Including the thought that you exist outside of it? Is it the same experience for you? Why would I entertain your idea when you don't believe you could know that it is even a possibility . Do you understand the nature of our conversations in relation to your understandings and beliefs that you don't have / can't have . You haven't acknowledged the problem / contradiction that your non understandings create in regards to conversation . Are you deliberately avoiding acknowledging this crucial fact . It seems that you are, for every time I mention it you don't address it . This is at the heart of your understandings and beliefs regarding what is happening or what is potentially happening . |
|
