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Post by Figgles on Dec 10, 2023 20:04:55 GMT
In that 'wishing' there is a failure to fully engage and embrace the experience of "acorn." Change is inevitable. No need to "wish" it into play. There can be intent...expectation even, without grasping/needfully desiring something "other than" what IS.
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Post by Figgles on Dec 10, 2023 20:00:54 GMT
That will happen naturally as fundamental judgment of wrongness/fundamental fault is seen through, and in that, fundamental perfection of THIS present moment and it's content is illuminated.
"Trying" to cease to seek for something "other than" what imminently presents is itself "chasing something."
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Post by Figgles on Dec 10, 2023 19:48:13 GMT
You are misconstruing the absence of an existent, separate "self" with an absence of all self-reference. The personal self as an appearance, was never the problem...mistaking that for a some-thing that has separate, inherent existence in it's own right, is.
Post SR, there is still an apparent personal 'self,' it's just now no longer mistaken to be a separately existent, volitional entity that is the source of awareness....in SR, the personal self is clearly seen to be appearing within/to Awareness and not the other way around.
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Post by Figgles on Dec 9, 2023 4:22:10 GMT
Great question. As usual, ZD has overstated things in a way that indicates he's talking out of his hat. It's not the 'sense of self' per se that disappears and leaves an absence, it's the previous, erroneous sense of "inherent existence/separation."
The sense of personal self is not the delusion/illusion that gets seen through in SR. It's the delusion/illusion of fundamental separation.
A sense of self continues, but in SR, it's now "couched within" the fundamental, unwavering ground of awareness.
This realization/shift in locus of seeing, dissolves the "sense of separation/inherent existence." The personal self and all accompanying senses (and yes, emotions, included in that...as they of course, continue on post SR) are now clearly known to be appearance only, a temporal expression of the underlying, unwavering ground, which in SR, is the primary 'seat' of all seeing.
ZD is asserting the experiential human/body-mind/me character as that which gets seen through in SR. That's ridiculous. What gets seen through is separation....his is mistaking the apparent person, arising senses, me character experience with the SVP.
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Post by Figgles on Dec 7, 2023 6:19:07 GMT
You're welcome sir!! Nice to see you're still here! I look at here and this time I found that colour of the forum has been changed so thought of looking inside. Yeah, I explain what's behind the colour change here: spiritualgab.freeforums.net/post/84808It worked! I can see the scroll bar!!
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Post by Figgles on Dec 7, 2023 6:16:44 GMT
Yup. It's that desire/yearning/craving for experience to BE something "other than" what is is, that = imagined separation. Yes. But I was not talking about the separation. I was talking about the consequences of craving an experience. It's all part of the same conversation. If you're talking about craving and it's apparent consequences, central to that, is the mistake of separation.
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Post by Figgles on Dec 6, 2023 20:54:33 GMT
Yup.
The difference though is that as you allude to there, Jed's "human adulthood" does not require awakening/SR/enlightement, whereas the way Reefs and ZD use the term "natural state," as I recall, that does require SR/awakening...the absence/seeing through of the SVP....?
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Post by Figgles on Dec 6, 2023 20:48:16 GMT
That which is truly "acausal" has no condition "necessary" to it.
The quest...the seeking movement towards Truth has a delusion fueling it....the seeker 'thinks' he's interested in "The Truth" but he has no idea what that actually IS...how could he?
I would say if anything, the "ultimate surrender" happens more "in spite of" the person's seeking/craving/chasing after what he imagines to be "the Truth."
That said, even the delusional seeker cannot stand in the way of that "divine grace" of the shift in locus of seeing that is SR. It is beyond all cause.....all condition.
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Post by Figgles on Dec 6, 2023 20:23:23 GMT
Ultimately, nothing that arises in experience is "caused" by anything else that arises, but if we're talking the difference between "unconditional happiness vs. conditional," it becomes pretty clear where a condition to happiness lies, when that condition suddenly disappears and that happiness drops out and lands on a low that is pretty much equal in depth to the height of the previous happiness.
Consider the immediate sense of excited joy as one hears he just won the lottery and then the 'drop' as he hears it was but a mistake.
That said, there can indeed be happiness...sense of well-being/joy that is unconditional...and when that ebbs, it does not lead to a drastic drop but it was not conditional in the first place.
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Post by Figgles on Dec 6, 2023 20:15:46 GMT
Yup. It's that desire/yearning/craving for experience to BE something "other than" what is is, that = imagined separation.
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