Enigma
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Posts: 13,969
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Post by Enigma on Feb 2, 2018 2:14:30 GMT
just as you figured I would chime in, what you said here is expected. What else could you say? ''My irritation at Reefs over stuff that happened months ago is still playing itself out''? The context doesn't really support you in saying that, even if it was true. Yes, I'm freakin' pissed at the guy and really got him good with that one, didn't I. Absolutely nailed him to the wall by pointing out that he surprised me. I'll be reveling in the glow I got from catching him up there for weeks....months maybe. Your comments about Reefs has almost no energy to it. Andy's comments to you however...
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Enigma
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 13,969
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Post by Enigma on Feb 2, 2018 2:24:04 GMT
I pulled the following conversation between Reefs and Justlikeyou from ST, as I see JLY making an important point with regards to suffering. Because Reefs has indicated he is quite into AH, I am quite surprised to see that he doubts that acceptance of emotional pain has a similar result to acceptance of physical pain. It is after all the judgement of and resistance to, momentary arisings of feelings of sorrow, irritation and fear, that escalates them into a depth that can be called 'suffering.' (Great Tolle quotes JLY added at the bottom) As long as we do anything from our conscious level, could it be acceptance, could it be rejecting, it's still a problem. If One is accepting the arising situation as it is, it's a mind game and soon he would meet up with the same situation. Creator doesn't need to do accepting to throw away something, he can simply recreate the situation where he doesn't need to struggle. When the creator is asleep within his own dream, it unfolds differently. As Figs said, there does need to be a fair amount of conscious awareness. God's eyelids need to at least be fluttering a bit.
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Enigma
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Posts: 13,969
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Post by Enigma on Feb 2, 2018 2:39:42 GMT
As long as we do anything from our conscious level, could it be acceptance, could it be rejecting, it's still a problem. If One is accepting the arising situation as it is, it's a mind game and soon he would meet up with the same situation. Creator doesn't need to do accepting to throw away something, he can simply recreate the situation where he doesn't need to struggle. I full out agree, unless one is seeing from a particular vantage point, 'acceptance' of anything is going to be nothing more than a contrived exercise that is ultimately futile. However, if one is sincerely interested, he can direct his focus in a way that has him seeing what he needs to see, to end the resistance to the particular ideas and feelings currently in play. The freedom to direct focus in that way, is directly related to the sincerity and interest involved. As I would talk about it, one must be consciously aware of standing outside of the minding that is forming the struggle, positioned as the observer or witness of the minding. This is, of course, the position from which we always observe, but it must be consciously realized. Most are unable to do this because having identified as the mind itself, it seems like there is no place to stand outside of it. After all, one cannot stand outside of oneself.
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Enigma
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Posts: 13,969
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Post by Enigma on Feb 2, 2018 2:41:07 GMT
I full out agree, unless one is seeing from a particular vantage point, 'acceptance' of anything is going to be nothing more than a contrived exercise that is ultimately futile. However, if one is sincerely interested, he can direct his focus in a way that has him seeing what he needs to see, to end the resistance to the particular ideas and feelings currently in play. The freedom to direct focus in that way, is directly related to the sincerity and interest involved. Direct the focus is another illusion, finding out an answer is another illusion, resisting is illusion, accepting is illusion, decided to do something is an illusion, decided to not to do is also illusion, no matter how subtle our act could it be, it's still an illusion!If you feel like you understood what I said, then you are forming an another illusion. If you think you are correct, that is yet another illusion.
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Enigma
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Posts: 13,969
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Post by Enigma on Feb 2, 2018 2:45:56 GMT
Yes. Anytime there is the experience of a doer present, even if it is to simply direct focus, an ultimately illusive 'intermediary' is being imagined....but that is not going to be clearly seen unless one is fully Self realized....and it really need not be a problem. Until then, the imagined doer who directs focus for the purpose of accepting or 'relaxing into' an arising experience, is all just part and parcel of the greater unfolding. So long as there is an interest to invoke an intermediary who directs focus and instigates stuff, that's just how it's gonna be. When you tell someone who is not yet Self realized that they are not actually a doer, and that as a separate person they have no power to change the momentum of the movement in play, what they often hear is, "Just give up doing anything and stay in bed all day." I am not clear here, Self-Realized can direct the focus and other people can't? Realizing that I am not doing it doesn't do any good in my opinion here, This is called ZD's illusion. The great illusion is that you are a victim to the movement of mind, and are somehow inside of it. The movement of mind is happening inside of you! You are not a victim of your own creation.
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Enigma
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 13,969
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Post by Enigma on Feb 2, 2018 2:49:46 GMT
I pulled the following conversation between Reefs and Justlikeyou from ST, as I see JLY making an important point with regards to suffering. Because Reefs has indicated he is quite into AH, I am quite surprised to see that he doubts that acceptance of emotional pain has a similar result to acceptance of physical pain. It is after all the judgement of and resistance to, momentary arisings of feelings of sorrow, irritation and fear, that escalates them into a depth that can be called 'suffering.' (Great Tolle quotes JLY added at the bottom) Reefs responded to the above with: The original arising of sadness/sense of loss is not really based upon a 'bogus' thought. If let's say a loved one has died, there actually is a loss (at the very least) of physical relationship that happened, and it's normal for a sense of sadness to arise. If that sadness has spiraled down into 'grief', I say that is precisely because there was resistance to that initial arising of sadness, and that's what intensified the feeling of sadness and anchored it into an ongoing state rather than just a feeling that would otherwise ebb and flow as thoughts about the loss ebbed and flowed.
It is resistance to sorrow that sustains 'grief.'
Thus, if one were able to allow/cease resistance to (relax into) the painful feelings of grief, it would indeed begin to lighten up. There would start to be 'space' between the thoughts of loss and thus space between the arisings of sorrow.
Zackly!
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Enigma
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Posts: 13,969
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Post by Enigma on Feb 2, 2018 2:52:59 GMT
The directing of focus is like any other action/doing/. When there's enough interest there, it happens. You don't control your interest or lack thereof....it's either there or it isn't. Directing the focus is happening to achieve some result,right? What actually happens is more of an undoing. That's why words like surrender are used.
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Post by Figgles on Feb 2, 2018 5:20:12 GMT
I finally got a chance to venture oustide of the Tano thread. There's a whole big world out here! Haha...I know...tell me about it! Yes! Excellent description...perfectly broken down....and yes, important to see, that feeling is never "actually" stuck, (cause, as you say, it is a movement...something that rises and falls)......Love this: "Mind creates the feeling over and over, at the same time lamenting that it can't get rid of it."
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