Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2018 13:14:08 GMT
We never experience a material world with body's and objects. We experience sense perceptions which are activities of awareness. You are that - awareness. -DC A sensation is an experience of awareness in awareness. -Deepak Chopra I sense zendancer is saying the same thing. If you need me, I’ll be over here questioning your underlying assumptions.  I agreed with the above comment. Yes, when awareness knows something, it's perceiving, KNOWING=PERCEIVING, it's completely happening in Awareness, but the argument is whether awareness creates and perceives or receives and perceives, What I said was, ZD doesn't know which one is True! |
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Enigma
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Post by Enigma on Feb 3, 2018 17:38:31 GMT
I don't think there are any knowledge requirements for SR, as it's simply the seeing through of illusion, though knowledge seems inevitable. Certainly, one need not take an interest in whether or not the world exists. If you keep changing the concepts of yours, it would be difficult to follow you and argue with you. I thoroughly remember that you argue with people that knowing everything happens in consciousness implies that he must be knowing that outer world doesn't exist. There are plenty of times you did with Satch. You supported me while he denying that he doesn't know outer world exist. Yes. So where do you see me changing my concepts? (Be clear, please) |
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Enigma
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Post by Enigma on Feb 3, 2018 17:54:28 GMT
I suspect he was unsure as to how you were defining 'exist'. He does say there is no inner vs. outer, so as I see it, that takes care of an actual belief in 'a world out there' that somehow stands apart from Being. I don't know why I often need to argue with people with their understanding. Read what he said carefully once again, Enigma immediately understand after reading these lines what zendancer meant clearly. Doesn't it extremely clear for you that he doesn't know outer world exist? You're getting to be as bad a word lawyer as Andy, and for the same reason. I didn't say I understand what he meant. I said it sounds odd. I had the same thought as Figs, that he was unclear what was meant by exists. Some peeps say the world of appearances exists, and generally I don't argue with them because I haven't passed my word lawyer bar exam yet. ZD's point was that it doesn't matter to him. |
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Enigma
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Post by Enigma on Feb 3, 2018 17:58:04 GMT
We never experience a material world with body's and objects. We experience sense perceptions which are activities of awareness. You are that - awareness. -DC A sensation is an experience of awareness in awareness. -Deepak Chopra I sense zendancer is saying the same thing. If you need me, I’ll be over here questioning your underlying assumptions.
It's a dirty job, but somebody's gotta do it!  |
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Enigma
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Posts: 13,969
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Post by Enigma on Feb 3, 2018 22:18:41 GMT
We never experience a material world with body's and objects. We experience sense perceptions which are activities of awareness. You are that - awareness. -DC A sensation is an experience of awareness in awareness. -Deepak Chopra I sense zendancer is saying the same thing. If you need me, I’ll be over here questioning your underlying assumptions. I agreed with the above comment. Yes, when awareness knows something, it's perceiving, KNOWING=PERCEIVING, it's completely happening in Awareness, but the argument is whether awareness creates and perceives or receives and perceives, What I said was, ZD doesn't know which one is True! Receives??  |
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Post by Figgles on Feb 3, 2018 22:28:06 GMT
Absolutely, (if what you mean is that the world has no fundamental separate, independent existence apart from Being). A slightly different way to say it is; i know that 'outer' is just an appearance (as is inner)...that ultimately, there is no outer vs. inner....its all One....the appearing 'world', arises within/to Being. You clearly said in the past that you don't know whether outer world exist or not. Now you are changing. Really? I would be interested to see the quote....I too then was likely not fully grasping what was meant by the term 'exist.' "Outer vs. inner" is only ever just an appearance. And THAT I am clear on...so anything I said about outer from thereon, would have included that seeing/knowing. |
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Post by Figgles on Feb 3, 2018 22:33:55 GMT
I suspect he was unsure as to how you were defining 'exist'. He does say there is no inner vs. outer, so as I see it, that takes care of an actual belief in 'a world out there' that somehow stands apart from Being. I don't know why I often need to argue with people with their understanding. Read what he said carefully once again, Enigma immediately understand after reading these lines what zendancer meant clearly. Doesn't it extremely clear for you that he doesn't know outer world exist? What I mostly hear him saying there is that he goes along with the "experience of" inner/outer, and the experience of a 'world' that appears. He intimates though that he knows it's all empty when he says he just doesn't really care either way whether or not it 'exists'. Again....I think you have a very definite idea in mind when you speak of 'no outer world exists,' than what he was referencing. ultimately though, I might be wrong. IN general, I'm not all that jazzed about surmising what other folks mean....and on that note, am kind of wondering right now why I'm even responding to this. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2018 7:54:45 GMT
What I mostly hear him saying there is that he goes along with the "experience of" inner/outer, and the experience of a 'world' that appears. He intimates though that he knows it's all empty when he says he just doesn't really care either way whether or not it 'exists'. Again....I think you have a very definite idea in mind when you speak of 'no outer world exists,' than what he was referencing. ultimately though, I might be wrong. IN general, I'm not all that jazzed about surmising what other folks mean....and on that note, am kind of wondering right now why I'm even responding to this. Nice post, figs. I agree, no sense in getting all wound up about anything. I guess in a way I was getting wound up about things yesterday with the tone of my posts. I’ve been out of sorts this week. A week ago I had a car-deer collision, and I’m still bummed out about it. Happened on a hill with a blind curve near the top. I was paying attention to the centerline on the blind curve because sometimes the oncoming traffic drives over the centerline in the middle of the road, and suddenly WHAMMO! Impact. But I saw nothing. Something compelled me to look out the sideview mirror, and there was the deer running across the road. He leapt over the guard rail on the other side of the road in a strange twisting way, and disappeared. The whole thing was so bizarre. I continued driving until I found a place to turn around, turned around, and drove back. Parked on the shoulder of the road about 100 feet from the guardrail. Walked toward the guardrail and looked down into the ravine. There it was, writhing in agony. I mean, FUCK! Ya know? Called Pat at home to let her know what happened, then called the Sheriff’s Dept. They sent out a deputy, and he took the deer out of its suffering with his service revolver. I mean, I felt like shit. Still do when the imagery reappears. So, Gopal, I apologize if my post exchanges with you had a shitty tone to them yesterday. I'm not making excuses. My heart is broken and I wasn't very kind. peace You haven't caused any trouble, so absolutely no problem, the argument is about whether ZD believes that outer world exist, his comment clearly says that he doesn't KNOW. But you raised the question whether tranquil mind has inner and outer distinction(I believe you deleted that comment), but I would say that's not our argument is about. Zd says that he act as if outer world exist but if it doesn't ,then he is okay with that. That clearly tells me that he doesn't know whether outer world exist. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2018 13:17:24 GMT
You haven't caused any trouble, so absolutely no problem, the argument is about whether ZD believes that outer world exist, his comment clearly says that he doesn't KNOW. But you raised the question whether tranquil mind has inner and outer distinction(I believe you deleted that comment), but I would say that's not our argument is about. Zd says that he act as if outer world exist but if it doesn't ,then he is okay with that. That clearly tells me that he doesn't know whether outer world exist. Hi gopal I've been reading zendancer for quite awhile now. I still feel his comment is more about living spontaneously. He's allowing himself to be in a state of openness.  I don't care what kind of state he is in, but he doesn't know whether outer world exist. But Enigma claims that people who doesn't know outer world doesn't exist is not SR. So Enigma is saying that ZD is not SR. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2018 13:19:03 GMT
I agreed with the above comment. Yes, when awareness knows something, it's perceiving, KNOWING=PERCEIVING, it's completely happening in Awareness, but the argument is whether awareness creates and perceives or receives and perceives, What I said was, ZD doesn't know which one is True! Receives?? If there is an objective world, then you are receiving your perception through your eyes. |
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