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Post by Figgles on Apr 18, 2021 22:06:14 GMT
From ZAzeniac: ‘’I it hard to believe knowing how intelligent and intuitive you are and being aware of the views of others here that you didn't know it would garner the reaction it did. In fact, you mention the word "trigger" in the OP. Now honestly, I have no problem with you posting your views. But just as you surmise that my response, the complete opposite view in political terms, is born of conditioning and unconscious, it seems to me that yours have the same source. I don't know if there's a great awakening. It's not relevant because the dream is perfect whether there is or isn't. Only the ego thinks it can improve on it. I'm working on stepping back and watching Shiva dance’ I’ll reply here because I don’t want to log on. Finding it hard to believe does not make it right. I genuinely thought the video was great my intentions were NOT malicious, only I know that not anyone else, but his political bias is what caused a problem. What’s the problem with triggers? Use them to awaken further, that’s why we are here!!! He doesn’t know about a Great Awakening??? Wow!!! I agree on the very last point; it is ego wanting to change and improve it. Totally but on a non-dual forum, let’s have the common decency to listen to one another and seek to understand, if not here and now, where? When? Yes! Zaz is making the mistake of thinking that awakening = a complete absence of caring about the dream-content...that seeing it's all empty appearance only, necessarily means no longer being involved in worldly things. That's the Jeff Foster "Brown-Bear" view of things. It's a nonsense. The world need not be turned away from to be free of it. The problem is, really, in the un-awakened trying to imagine what it's like to be awake. In other words, an SVP, trying to imagine what's it like not to be an SVP....the idea that all interest in the world ceases upon seeing the world as an empty appearance only, is attractive to the unawakened, because to him, wordly conditions = suffering. He still has not yet seen that it's the SVP/separation that = suffering. Absent that, the world still continues to arise/appear and it still continues to engage, delight and at times, disappoint. That's life. If you're awake, disappointment does not = suffering.
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Esponja
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 1,727
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Post by Esponja on Apr 18, 2021 22:08:14 GMT
From ZAzeniac: ‘’I it hard to believe knowing how intelligent and intuitive you are and being aware of the views of others here that you didn't know it would garner the reaction it did. In fact, you mention the word "trigger" in the OP. Now honestly, I have no problem with you posting your views. But just as you surmise that my response, the complete opposite view in political terms, is born of conditioning and unconscious, it seems to me that yours have the same source. I don't know if there's a great awakening. It's not relevant because the dream is perfect whether there is or isn't. Only the ego thinks it can improve on it. I'm working on stepping back and watching Shiva dance’ I’ll reply here because I don’t want to log on. Finding it hard to believe does not make it right. I genuinely thought the video was great my intentions were NOT malicious, only I know that not anyone else, but his political bias is what caused a problem. What’s the problem with triggers? Use them to awaken further, that’s why we are here!!! He doesn’t know about a Great Awakening??? Wow!!! I agree on the very last point; it is ego wanting to change and improve it. Totally but on a non-dual forum, let’s have the common decency to listen to one another and seek to understand, if not here and now, where? When? Yes! Zaz is making the mistake of thinking that awakening = a complete absence of caring about the dream-content...that seeing it's all empty appearance only, necessarily means no longer being involved in worldly things. That's the Jeff Foster "Brown-Bear" view of things. It's a nonsense. The world need not be turned away from to be free of it. The problem is, really, in the un-awakened trying to imagine what it's like to be awake. In other words, an SVP, trying to imagine what's it like not to be an SVP....the idea that all interest in the world ceases upon seeing the world as an empty appearance only, is attractive to the unawakened, because to him, wordly conditions = suffering. He still has not yet seen that it's the SVP/separation that = suffering. Absent that, the world still continues to arise/appear and it still continues to engage, delight and at times, disappoint. That's life. If you're awake, disappointment does not = suffering. Yes, let it all be. Who is there to be worried about it anyhow?
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Post by Figgles on Apr 18, 2021 22:22:21 GMT
Yes! Zaz is making the mistake of thinking that awakening = a complete absence of caring about the dream-content...that seeing it's all empty appearance only, necessarily means no longer being involved in worldly things. That's the Jeff Foster "Brown-Bear" view of things. It's a nonsense. The world need not be turned away from to be free of it. The problem is, really, in the un-awakened trying to imagine what it's like to be awake. In other words, an SVP, trying to imagine what's it like not to be an SVP....the idea that all interest in the world ceases upon seeing the world as an empty appearance only, is attractive to the unawakened, because to him, wordly conditions = suffering. He still has not yet seen that it's the SVP/separation that = suffering. Absent that, the world still continues to arise/appear and it still continues to engage, delight and at times, disappoint. That's life. If you're awake, disappointment does not = suffering. Yes, let it all be. Who is there to be worried about it anyhow? A most profound pointer....words of wisdom.
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muttley
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 4,394
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Post by muttley on Apr 19, 2021 20:35:44 GMT
Glad you rezzed - clearly, from over the years, we share quite a bit in common. Yup. I can't, because if there was no previous knowledge that required seeing through....knowing that fell away and in it's wake left 'not knowing,' then they were already realized. To realize the Truth is see that stuff you believed you knew for absolute certain, you actually don't...and that stuff you thought was actually true, wasn't. Awakening means seeing the inherent emptiness of all that appears....it means seeing that what is actually known for certain...what CAN be known, is miniscule. SR/Awakening is the seeing of what is not actually so. There was previous knowing of separation, of an SVP and then separation gets seen through. There is a profound 'unknowing' in that seeing through. Waking up is all about 'not knowing and 'not knowing' really is an absence. (** shakes head sadly **)
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Post by Figgles on Apr 20, 2021 1:50:26 GMT
Yup. I can't, because if there was no previous knowledge that required seeing through....knowing that fell away and in it's wake left 'not knowing,' then they were already realized. To realize the Truth is see that stuff you believed you knew for absolute certain, you actually don't...and that stuff you thought was actually true, wasn't. Awakening means seeing the inherent emptiness of all that appears....it means seeing that what is actually known for certain...what CAN be known, is miniscule. SR/Awakening is the seeing of what is not actually so. There was previous knowing of separation, of an SVP and then separation gets seen through. There is a profound 'unknowing' in that seeing through. Waking up is all about 'not knowing and 'not knowing' really is an absence. (** shakes head sadly **)When it comes to SR, isn't all 'realization,' ultimately a seeing through that leaves a 'not knowing'?
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muttley
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 4,394
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Post by muttley on Apr 21, 2021 18:58:51 GMT
(** shakes head sadly **) When it comes to SR, isn't all 'realization,' ultimately a seeing through that leaves a 'not knowing'? Hush now hun'. No need to repeat ourselves so ...
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Post by Figgles on Apr 21, 2021 19:02:53 GMT
When it comes to SR, isn't all 'realization,' ultimately a seeing through that leaves a 'not knowing'? Hush now hun'. No need to repeat ourselves so ... Yes, I'm repeating myself, because Truth really doesn't come in a whole bunch of varying and nuanced shades.... but you've yet to talk at all about how Self Realization could happen absent seeing through/unknowing.
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muttley
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 4,394
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Post by muttley on Apr 22, 2021 18:24:21 GMT
Hush now hun'. No need to repeat ourselves so ... Yes, I'm repeating myself, because Truth really doesn't come in a whole bunch of varying and nuanced shades.... but you've yet to talk at all about how Self Realization could happen absent seeing through/unknowing. Nah, I have, in my own words and in my own way. You just like to argue, and while you have high standards for what you argue about. You really like to argue.
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Post by Figgles on Apr 22, 2021 19:38:33 GMT
Yes, I'm repeating myself, because Truth really doesn't come in a whole bunch of varying and nuanced shades.... but you've yet to talk at all about how Self Realization could happen absent seeing through/unknowing. Nah, I have, in my own words and in my own way. You just like to argue, and while you have high standards for what you argue about. You really like to argue. Nah, I'm genuinely interested in understanding. Argument/challenge is often inherent in that though, when I think what I'm seeing involves contradiction... or conceptualizing where mind has no business. Agreed, you've talked about SR being the case, absent seeing through/unknowing of previous erroneous ideas (Sorry, I didn't word that clearly)...what I'm really interested in talking about is our differing definition of the realization inherent in SR. My stance is that SR is all about 'losing,' whereas you seem to be asserting that that's not always the case...? That sometimes it is about an adding to the pot of knowledge vs. a subtraction...? On these forums, my greatest interest is in rooting out delusion/falsity and illuminating Truth.
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muttley
Super Duper Senior Member
Posts: 4,394
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Post by muttley on Apr 24, 2021 20:11:22 GMT
Nah, I have, in my own words and in my own way. You just like to argue, and while you have high standards for what you argue about. You really like to argue. Nah, I'm genuinely interested in understanding. Argument/challenge is often inherent in that though, when I think what I'm seeing involves contradiction... or conceptualizing where mind has no business. Agreed, you've talked about SR being the case, absent seeing through/unknowing of previous erroneous ideas (Sorry, I didn't word that clearly)...what I'm really interested in talking about is our differing definition of the realization inherent in SR. My stance is that SR is all about 'losing,' whereas you seem to be asserting that that's not always the case...? That sometimes it is about an adding to the pot of knowledge vs. a subtraction...? On these forums, my greatest interest is in rooting out delusion/falsity and illuminating Truth. .. by arguing about it ...
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